Episode 64: Finding the opportunities as you explore your path – with Elvis Metrins of the Startup Playground Podcast

Episode 64: Finding the opportunities as you explore your path - with Elvis Metrins of the Startup Playground Podcast

Jeremy Cline 0:00
Say you've got a particular area or subject matter of interest. It's an area where you think there might be opportunities to do business, but you just haven't identified what that business might be. How do you take things forward to discover where the opportunities lie? Well in the case of today's guest, he started a podcast. I'm Jeremy Cline and this is Change Work Life.

Jeremy Cline 0:36
Hello and welcome to Change Work Life, the podcast that's all about beating the Sunday evening blues and enjoying Mondays again. My guest this week is Elvis Metrens, who is the host of the Startup Playground podcast, which steps into the shoes of real life startup founders to talk about their successes and their failures. Elvis, welcome to the show.

Elvis Metrins 0:55
Thank you, Jeremy. Thanks for inviting me. It's a huge pleasure to be on another podcast. I think it's the third time attending some so I'm looking forward.

Jeremy Cline 1:04
Fantastic. Can you tell us a little bit more about your podcast? So what it's about who it's for, and also why you started it?

Elvis Metrins 1:10
Basically, the main reason why I started my podcast was because I wanted to understand the entrepreneur mind. There are three reasons why I started going into podcasting. First of all, when I used to study marketing and sales and a little social media, I wanted to know what podcasting is, but none of the teachers told me, because that was kind of a new medium at that time - even though I graduated around two and a half years ago. I had a friend who was listening all the time to podcasts and I found podcasts actually a very interesting medium, because we humans possess something very valuable that a not a lot of us use - our voice. And actually another thing that's very valuable is our story, since that can impact a lot of people's lives. And we can maybe share with somebody and then we can get one step closer to our goal or one step further in our journey. And another reason why I started a podcast about entrepreneurs and startups was because not only I wanted to understand the entrepreneurial mind, but I wanted to understand why a lot of startups and businesses fail, and why there is this ratio of 97% of startups can fail and three only succeed, and what makes one when another fails. They were the main reasons for me starting this type of podcast.

Jeremy Cline 1:35
What lead you to that topic, this desire to understand why so many startups fail and why only a few succeed?

Elvis Metrins 2:55
Entrepreneurship and entrepreneurs is not a new term, but they started evolving more with the first computers and first laptops and TVs and Tesla cars. And I wanted to understand what entrepreneurship means because I have seen a lot of people on their Instagram and Facebook and social media having a status that they are entrepreneurs. But when you look deeper into their profiles, it doesn't seem like they're creating any impact.

Jeremy Cline 3:36
Turning to your own personal situation - I know we're still in the midst of the covid 19 pandemic - and I know that you were working in hospitality. Is that something that you've stopped working in just because of the pandemic and hospitality as an industry has really, really suffered? Or is it something that you say, No, I've now left hospitality and I've left it for good?

Elvis Metrins 4:03
Mainly the reason why I left hospitality was because I didn't feel any competency anymore. My job was auto pilot - I'm just going to work doing stuff that I do not love doing. Hanging out with people and talking, it's something I do and I enjoy talking - that's why I do podcasts. But basically if you do the same things over and over and over and over, it doesn't help you to grow professionally and personally. For me personally, it's felt like if I'm doing over 10 years being in different hotels around the world, Latvia and Turkey and some other places and also Denmark - I realised that that's not where my passion actually lies, because my passion lies more in creating something more creative. And back when I was working in the hotels, my manager gave me an option to work in a kitchen and a kitchen comparatively to being a waiter, it's a little bit more creative, because you can do a plating, make foods, so you can use a little creativity in it, but it still limits your options. But I always was striving for something more creative. And then the first time I saw iMac and I saw all these creative things and Photoshop and everything, it got me into creative because I want to understand how to create these kind of banners, how to create different kinds of layouts, templates and those kind of things. So that led me to moving into more a creative industry rather than being stuck in a place where I don't feel growth.

Jeremy Cline 5:47
Okay, so having left the hospitality industry, what do you say to people when they ask what you do now? Do you have a 'now I do this', an alternative career? Or is it something that you're still exploring?

Elvis Metrins 6:01
Basically, what I'm trying to tell people is that currently my purpose is to understand the entrepreneurial mindset and to encourage and educate young entrepreneurs and everybody with a business mentality to reach out and follow your passion and dreams for a better world. We can only impact it, we cannot change the world. And also, I can chase for stories, because back many years ago when I was in a car accident, I lost a lot of my life story, and then I started realising how important our story actually is, how important our memories are and how important it is to share them and to cherish them. When I'm trying to answer what I do right now, I keep looking for my path and journey or journey and path. So basically, I'm still on my path to to something better than I had before.

Jeremy Cline 6:55
And so was the podcast the first step on that journey?

Elvis Metrins 6:59
I started in podcasting because I understood uniqueness in voice and stories, and understanding and sharing and all those kind of things. But also I got into a little event management. In a couple of days, I partner up with a startup called Hi Right Now and they are making one on one video conversation speed networking type of events. And for that reason, I also partnered up with them because I want other entrepreneurs and startups and businesses help to grow their network and grow their community. Because nothing in life, I believe, is made by one person. This term of self made man is too vague, because there's always somebody who helps somebody, maybe there are unique people who achieve alone everything in life, but usually by great leaders, there's some supporters and community that can help them to reach their goals. So it's important.

Jeremy Cline 8:01
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think if you're looking at any of the really successful people in the world at the moment, the Mark Zuckerbergs, the Jeff Bezoses - they wouldn't be there were it not for their team and their executives and the people that they worked with when they were just starting out. Yeah, I completely agree with that. And also, it's not just that you can't do everything, but you're not necessarily good at everything. So you need to work with people who are good at what you're not good at, so you can concentrate on what you're good at yourself.

Elvis Metrins 8:33
Exactly.

Jeremy Cline 8:34
How did you get introduced to this company that you're working with? And how did you come to work with them?

Elvis Metrins 8:40
Basically, back when I started podcasting, which was around April 2019, I started doing podcasting attending people and going to their headquarters and going to their incubators and private spaces and places where people feel comfortable. So I was referring to myself being a remote podcaster that always had all the equipment in my backpack. And then we reached corona, and then I realised that for me to actually still stay in business or still be on the peak of the iceberg, or at least be visible among peers in a business environment and entrepreneurial landscape, I have to go against my biggest challenges - my fear is actually being in front of the camera because I feel weird being in front of camera, because you're looking at yourself. It's hard for me to explain but maybe Jeremy you have heard that before.

Jeremy Cline 9:39
Yeah, well I find it can be hard enough listening to myself let alone seeing myself on video!

Elvis Metrins 9:43
Yeah. When I first started recording myself and then listening to my voice and listening on all the platforms like Spotify and Apple podcasts and other places where we host our podcasts, my voice seemed very weird, but then I realised that this is my voice. I'm born with it. This is my face. I'm born with it. And the best I can do is just to overcome the fear for a better good. And then I was thinking okay so I'm gonna start doing YouTube podcasts and all those kind of things like video podcasts, and I invested in some video equipment. And then one day I was going through my emails, and then I saw that there was a mail from a guy called Stephen Choi, the CEO and co founder of Hi Right Now, and he was saying, Hey, I'm listening to your podcast, and I'm a fan and I like your vibe. And then I thought this service sounds very interesting when we were talking about Hi Right Now. And then one thing led to another one and then I realised that we humans have to cherish connections, because I think that a lot of people during this pandemic and during this lockdown have realised how important is human connection, physical connection. And even though you're talking to people or meeting strangers. For me as a person in a creative industry that uplifts me, and I wanted to try that Hi Right Now service. What they claim is expand your professional network via quick one on one video conversations. And what is unique about them - because it's not like they're the only ones who does something like that - but the way they do it, it's super simple, super randomised. And you don't know who you're going to meet. And you always have a good time because you always meet new people. And that was an opportunity for me to reach people, audiences and create followers on another side of the world like USA, the West Coast and East Coast and Asia and Australia and everybody else. And somehow I just became their biggest fan or supporter. How they refer to me is Hibassador, meaning Hi Right Now ambassador.

Jeremy Cline 11:55
So how did you come from that position where you were sort of using their services to come to work with them and to organise their events and that sort of thing?

Elvis Metrins 12:04
I'm not organising their events, I'm organising events through their platform, because everybody can make an event on their platform. And before the corona, I wanted to do my own event and I organised venues, and I had an event team that was helping me and we were reaching out to sponsors and reaching out to keynote speakers, and creating a whole theme and inviting people. And then corona came, and then I could not. So basically everything they invested in those couple months on organising an event to gather people and help them increase their community and network actually tell more about what Startup Playground podcast does - the thing that I'm founder of - and then yeah, everything got cut off and we were not allowed to meet each other. So I had to think through how to recreate the same event experiences without us actually meeting in person. We meet through the internet as a new normal.

Jeremy Cline 13:15
So the events that you're organising through this platform, who are they for and who is attending these?

Elvis Metrins 13:22
The events that I'm organising are basically for entrepreneurs. And the thing that I'm trying to achieve with this is basically for people who feel stuck not being able to form genuine professional and personal connections, or they maybe just want to take their passion to the next level. So I'm giving them an option or a pool of people to meet and share their vision and increase their network, and just to share further the vision or the enjoyment I have got from the Hi Right Now platform. So basically, the event is for everybody who is an entrepreneur, who wants to become an entrepreneur or just has a passion for something and he wants to turn his passion let's say, into a career. If we look back, then you know that the best businesses or the most enjoyable businesses that people have is one they have passion for, because then it doesn't feel like a job actually.

Jeremy Cline 14:18
Have you had any of these events so far, or are you still in the planning stage as regards these?

Elvis Metrins 14:23
No, no, this is basically the first event I'm making through Hi Right Now. And right now I'm of course not reaching the audience or the people attending that I would love to. I have to think as an entrepreneur outside the box how to get people to attend, because maybe people don't want to attend something that they haven't tested before. They need to be first followers or first supporters that share a uniqueness or in the vision of the whole event.

Jeremy Cline 14:55
Is this intended to be a paid for event?

Elvis Metrins 14:58
No, it's completely free.

Jeremy Cline 15:00
Okay.

Elvis Metrins 15:01
Free of charge.

Jeremy Cline 15:02
Where will this lead you do you hope? I mean, let's say you get some people to come along. In terms of your own entrepreneurial ambitions and ideas, where are you hoping that this might lead you?

Elvis Metrins 15:18
What I'm hoping to achieve with this event is basically to help others, as I mentioned, to increase their network and community, and also help me increase the community and also get some followers behind it. Because with every each product - as we mentioned before - it needs some kind of followers who support and say it's good. But with the vast amount of podcasts and shows and content available currently, it's hard to stand out among all the big giants, like say Joe Rogan, who is the number one podcaster in the world currently, I believe. Sometimes little people like me will have to think outside the box, how to actually reach those hundreds and hundreds of listeners, because the podcast has seen growth, but I would love to have a bigger growth and actually showing that also, the brands also have to have a voice and also have to have their story heard. So my intention in this event is not for me to create a popularity or reputation, but more help others, and sharing this principle of give-take.

Jeremy Cline 16:36
This is an idea, I mean, getting entrepreneurs together to network to tell each other their stories and struggles and all that sort of thing. That's a great idea. I'm curious as to where it might go in terms of being a business for you now, because I don't know anything about your circumstances, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that you're at some point going to want to have something which generates an income, pays the bills, that sort of thing?

Elvis Metrins 17:06
Eventually, of course, I'd love to. But for this last year, and this year, probably not. So I'm thinking how to create this kind of monetization without looking kind of greedy, because I don't want to create this image about myself that I just want to monetize on people's wallets. I want to provide value, and then feel like they would love to invest or sponsor or share or donate into what I do. So basically, them believing and sharing my vision through good marketing. In terms of me leading, I'm thinking maybe in future do merchandise, or maybe also I'm thinking about writing a book because of the vast amount of knowledge that I have generated over all these podcasts. I was thinking and also a lot of entrepreneurs and business people that are older and in a bigger seniority level in a business environment have also suggested that I write a book or make an audiobook for people to actually soak up, because as my grandma used to say that we always learn, and we never stop learning in our life. And our whole life is a journey of actually learning new things, and you never stop learning. So the knowledge that I own and the data I have collected, I mean, I don't want to refer to data because I don't like data as a word generally, but basically taking what I have learned and through the values and learnings and knowledge generated, I would love others to also learn, and grow professionally and personally. So the way when I'm thinking about selling is through knowledge, audiobooks, merchandise, books, those kind of things.

Jeremy Cline 17:08
Okay - courses, is that something you might move into?

Elvis Metrins 17:53
I was also thinking about it, because I'm currently in a move to like from Copenhagen to Riga, moving back to my home country. And I was thinking that because podcast is such a new medium and I have spoken to a lot of business people who would love to start their own podcast. And I was thinking since I have generated some kind of knowledge over those couple years that I'm doing podcasts and investing in audio engineering and all those things and learning all that stuff, I'm thinking why I can't also do a podcast consultancy, which I have done for a test run with some of my close friends and partners. And I thought that could be one of the ways to generate income, is to share a way and knowledge through these kind of podcasts - consultancy of how to start your own podcast. But then there are already podcasters doing so. So I would have to think about something else that adds additional value to it, that I'm also doing consultancy for them.

Jeremy Cline 20:13
I think if you're planning on doing it in your native Latvia, and you are from Latvia, yourself and so understand the language, culture, all that sort of thing - I would have thought that it gives you a quite a head start in terms of podcast consultancy, just being able to speak their language.

Elvis Metrins 20:29
Yeah, that's another thing. But you know, when I'm speaking to my friends in Latvia, not everybody's listening to podcasts. And a lot of elderly people, like my parents, and my girlfriend's parents, and cousins and everything, some of them don't know what podcasts are. They know that it's an audio thing, but some of them don't know how to access those things. A couple years ago, when I first was hopping on podcasts, a lot of iOS users said that they didn't even know that they have an apple podcast app, like an app that referred to the podcasts. So it wasn't probably marketed enough for people to know it. So I was thinking maybe to popularise podcasts, because for me to provide valuable knowledge I need to actually show the value in podcasts to convince people to actually make pay me for it. And as it's a new service, generally - kinda - then you know, you get it.

Jeremy Cline 21:33
To me that looks like a huge opportunity actually, because it's like many things, it's one of these things that's boomed in the US. Here in the UK, just in the past couple of years or so podcasting has really boomed and the number of people who've got their own podcasts has increased dramatically. Even more so as we've been through lockdown. You're seeing quite a few new podcasts here in the UK starting and it strikes me as a medium that will just spread. There will be people in Latvia who understand that this is something which is already big in other countries, it's growing in lots of other countries. Eventually it'll reach all parts of the world in the same way basically radio and TV did I would have thought.

Elvis Metrins 22:21
I think so too. But I think one of the biggest podcasts if I'm not mistaken, right now, Jeremy is London Real? You must have heard about it.

Jeremy Cline 22:30
I don't think I have actually, I might have to look that one up.

Elvis Metrins 22:33
Yeah. I think that he also does a consultancy, and he has done a lot of big names on his podcasts. And I think it's one of the biggest ones in the UK - London Real. You should check it out.

Jeremy Cline 22:45
Yeah, I will do, I'll look that one up. And what about on the community aspects because networking circles for entrepreneurs - that's definitely something that people do pay for. I had a few weeks ago, a chap who I don't know if you're aware of Business Networking International, which is basically a very large networking organisation for businesses and the chap Charlie Lawson, who runs the UK of BNI Business Networking International was a guest on the podcast a little while ago. So that's an example of one networking organisation which brings entrepreneurs together so that they can take advantage of mutual opportunities. And there's lots of other online entrepreneur networks. Is this something also that you can tap into, as you're already starting down that road?

Elvis Metrins 23:38
Jeremy, there's a lot of things we can start but I don't know how it's in UK, but in Europe, recently, Denmark being cut off a lot of places - if I'm going to go back to Latvia right now, I will have to sit in quarantine for two weeks, because of the corona. So it's hard to think because last couple months, things have gotten better. But still, we live in this life or a world of uncertainty. And I have thought about it, I'll be honest with you - I have thought about actually making these kind of networking events. But then if I don't know how many people have gathered, and I have to worry about everybody's health, and you know, all those kind of things. It's not just extra work, but an extra unnecessary hassle to think about it. So right now, I'm thinking about actually having these kind of online events. And when the situations gets better, and we actually will be able to gather people together in a venue, then I will definitely pursue with that idea.

Jeremy Cline 24:47
It was actually the online events that I had in mind. I don't see why that's something that couldn't also be something that's a business that you charge for. There's various online communities out there, online communities for entrepreneurs, which have a membership fee. It's it's the fee for getting into this closed community, getting to tap the brains of the founder and that sort of thing. So that was actually the direction I was going. I mean, I completely agree with you that hopefully there will be that there will be a place for in person networking before too long. But it was the online was where I was heading just at that moment.

Elvis Metrins 25:24
Yeah, the thing that I'm not sure of is how comfortable people are actually being in this type of events. Because I also saw in the past events of Hi Right Now, everything in the beginning is a huge hype, because it's something new. And when people start realising that it is what it is, then maybe not everybody comes to it. I think that this new type of video events are like webinars, of course it's not a new thing, but this type of new event is different. That's something new that we may not have experienced before. At least I haven't experienced before. Or maybe it's just been around and I have been living under a rock. So that's another option. But yeah, if these events that I'm actually making - Your Entrepreneur Playground - which is closely connected to Startup Playground podcast, is that I would love to create this kind of community where people gather together and share their ideas, feel comfortable, feel like home, because every great company and organisation needs a community.

Jeremy Cline 26:33
So if we were to fast forward a year, a year from now, what would you hope to be able to say, in terms of what your podcast, what your own entrepreneurial journey, what your business looks like, at that point?

Elvis Metrins 26:48
A year from now, I'd love to actually be that I reached Episode Number 50, that I would release some kind of audiobook. Because every time when I reach some kind of a number, or a particular number, like number 10, or 20, or 30, or something, I usually try to make some kind of idea - cherish the small goals. So my goal, and what I see in a year, I would at least develop a decent base of listeners and followers. So at least maybe like 10,000 downloads for a whole podcast or something like that, which is a bit far currently. Because I think I'm at around 3,000 downloads of 37 episodes. And I would love to create maybe some kind of incubator for startups, that's marketing services or maybe a marketing agency that focuses on podcasting, but also offers different kind of other services like social media and event management, and merchandise maybe or something like that. Initially evolved on podcasting and using voice as a main thing, and then going into other marketing services. Another thing that I was thinking about and also that was the new thing is to actually have your own radio show, like a morning radio show or something that's kind of like a business type of talk or something, because radio I think have lost some kind of value in our listener and listener base and generally because of Spotify and these new services offered for instant listening. So I think that radio has to come alive again eventually, because you know a lot of people listen to a radio when they are in a car. I don't listen to radio, haven't listened to radio for a very long time so I I don't stand by the fact, but yeah, when I commute they listen to audiobooks or a podcast.

Jeremy Cline 28:53
There's definitely still a market for for hearing people live because you get people they go live on youtube, they go live on Facebook, so you can see a way that effectively radio - and it might end up being internet radio - but how radio and podcast could meld in that way in that someone will do kind of like a live podcast episode which is broadcast either on traditional radio or online and that then becomes a podcast episode as well in its own right.

Elvis Metrins 29:23
I was also thinking about this - you just mentioned live, and I was thinking when I move back to Latvia, to make a live at home podcast and everything, but then a few days ago, I met one of my friends who is also doing audio and video engineering and editing. And he said that why don't I try a live podcast on a street, because he said that he had heard somewhere during corona since people are not allowed to be inside closely together, there was some podcasters, who started a podcast on the street, they just put a microphone on the street and people were just passing, events were happening - and they were still lawful, they were distanced and they were outside because when being outside it's less risky being influenced by the virus. So I was thinking why don't I have like an outdoor studio or a live session. So I could say like, every Wednesday, in a certain location, there is a live episode by Start a Playground podcast. So something like that, along those lines.

Jeremy Cline 30:36
Elvis I'd like to finish this conversation by looping back around to where we started. You mentioned how it's a very high proportion of startups fail and not many succeed. And I'm just wondering, what led you to go down this path into entrepreneurship? I understand that hospitality, you'd reach the end of the road on that and it wasn't for you, but why go down this particular path, which is extremely difficult?

Elvis Metrins 31:08
The reason why I basically went into entrepreneurship is - the first start was that I wanted to challenge myself and see, because you know, all my life to be honest, I've been kind of backing up a lot of things and kind of dropping out of a lot of things. And I realised that for once in my life I would love to start doing something that I love, and try loving it. And if you really love and if you really have passion for something, then, as I mentioned in the beginning of this episode, it doesn't feel like work. And you also have heard that, that you know that one of my greatest and also, let's say, mentors that I cherished and followed for like many years since I was a little guy since the first iMac and Apple One came out is I'm referring right now to Steve Jobs. One of his most famous quotes that I will read right now is basically that your work is going to fill a large part of your life. And the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven't found it, keep looking, don't settle. As with all matters of the heart, you will know when you find it. And like any great relationship it just gets better and better as the years roll on. So keep looking until you find it. Don't settle. What I would love to say about this is that basically, I want to love something that I do. I always search for something. And I think that finally in my 29 years, I have finally found something that I love. And I have found something that inspires others through what I do. And if I can inspire one life and inspire one person to change for better then that's all that matters for me.

Jeremy Cline 33:01
If you found that thing at age 29, then you are doing extremely well I think because there's a lot of people certainly older than that, and some people who never get there. So I think that's absolutely fantastic. Elvis this has been really interesting. You mentioned the Steve Jobs quote, are there any other tools, resources, books, anything like that, which you found particularly useful as you make this transition to entrepreneurship?

Elvis Metrins 33:24
One of the other people that I and and some people have may be a part of negative also thoughts about this person and also positive - it's mixed feelings. Who I'm referring is Gary Vaynerchuk or Gary V, he comes from the Eastern world, Soviet Union times and everything, and I can create a connection to him because I also come from that part of the world. And even though sometimes he may swear and say things that don't make sense to most people, if he had built something out of nothing and raised money he is a person to listen to because he made something out of something. Also recently I started listening to a Simon Sinek audiobook, The Why, and of course I have listened to Crushing It by Gary Vaynerchuk. So that's another resource that I'm closely referring to, and the last one - and it's been suggested by one of my business partners and dear friends Martin Schiller - is Sell Or Be Sold by Grant Cardone. And when I first started listening to that audiobook, it made clear sense that you know, no matter what we do in life, if we go buy milk in a shop or in relationships or in business or anything we do in life, either we sell something to somebody, or we've been sold something. And that's a life principle that we have to learn, to be better sales persons. It can get us out of a lot of unnecessary conflict if we learn sales. And The Prince by Antoine de Saint Exupery. When you're growing up and then you start reading these kind of books, you start understanding what is actually the true meaning of the book and what actually the writer or or the person who wrote it, wanted to mean.

Jeremy Cline 35:48
Fantastic. Well thank you for all of those. That's great. Where can people find you if they want to get in touch with you?

Elvis Metrins 35:54
Basically I'm accessible in all the social media except TikTok. You can search for me on Facebook under Elvis Metrins. Instagram is Elvis Metrins and it's gonna appear like my tag name which is Meetrins with soft letters. Startup Playground podcast at buzzsprout.com. Basically, in any social media, but mainly I'm on LinkedIn. So if anybody wants to contact me, have a cup of coffee, or if he wants to hear about my journey, or share his story, or just learn something about me or learn about podcasting, then feel free to drop me a connection. And you can actually invite and I will accept the connection and we can take it from there.

Jeremy Cline 36:46
Brilliant. I will link to those in the show notes. Elvis, I'm really looking forward to seeing just where you are in a year's time. In the meantime, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Elvis Metrins 36:57
Thank you, Jeremy very much for inviting me. I hope that people who wouldn't be listening to this will find value in what I say. Let's connect, let's increase the community and help each other to impact the world.

Jeremy Cline 37:09
Thank you very much Elvis.

Elvis Metrins 37:10
You're welcome, Jeremy. Bye bye.

Jeremy Cline 37:12
One of the things which really resonated with me with this interview is how Elvis had basically started a podcast on a subject area which interested him. He's not necessarily sure where it's going to go, but he's using the podcast as a medium to explore it, to find out where opportunities lie, to make connections with other people. And that's pretty much the reason why I started the podcast. As regular listeners will know and if you've read my About page, career change and specifically changing my career is something that's been on my mind for some time. And the way I decided to start exploring it was through the medium of this podcast so that I could find out more information for myself about changing career and how hopefully, other people could find that information and find it helpful. I didn't have a fixed idea as to where the podcast might take me, and certainly at the time of recording, I don't think Elvis necessarily knew for sure where the podcast might take him. But in both our cases, we're using it just as a means to explore an area which is of interest to us and see what doors it opens. And certainly in my case, it has opened doors it has sparked in my mind ideas for what I might turn this into or what I might do with it, or what directions it might lead. And I think sometimes that's just what we need to do aather than just sitting and reading about something, going out and talking to people about it, making some content. I mean, it's dead easy these days, pretty much anyone can do it. But if you're struggling to think about how you might explore a particular area, then it's a great place to start. You'll find the show notes for this episode with links to where you can get hold of Elvis and the resources he mentioned, the show notes are at changeworklife.com/64. And I've mentioned this on the podcast before but I have a couple of exercises on my website which might help you out if you know that you do want to make a change, but you're just not really sure what kind of change is right for you or where to start. If you click on Find Career Happiness, you'll find that at the menu at the top of my website, that'll take you to a form where if you fill that in, I will send you a couple of exercises - one which helps you identify what sort of things you enjoy doing, what are your likes, what are your dislikes, what are you good at? And another one which helps you visualise what you actually want life to look like. So in five years time, if someone was to ask you how things are and you say great, couldn't be better. What would life look like to make you say that? It's an incredibly useful thought experiment. Certainly I found it incredibly useful when I first did it, and it really does help you make decisions, because when faced with a particular choice, do I do this job? Do I do that job? What do I do? Then you can look at this picture that you draw for yourself and think Well, does this opportunity fit in with my picture? Or is it going to help me get there? So do check out those exercises if you think it might be of interest. As I say, if you go to my website, changeworklife.com the menu at the top there is an item there, Find Career Happiness, and you will find the exercises there. We're already beginning to close in on the end of 2020, and well what a year it's been. But one thing that's not changing is that I've got another great interview coming next week and I can't wait to see you then. Cheers. Bye.