Episode 74: Treating your career like a puzzle – with Christina Eanes of ChristinaEanes.com

Episode 74: Treating your career like a puzzle - with Christina Eanes of ChristinaEanes.com

Jeremy Cline 0:00
When you're unhappy in your job or career, it can sometimes feel overwhelming. You can feel a sense of despair as you really just can't work out what to do next. But what about just taking a step back and thinking about it like it's a puzzle, like it's a jigsaw puzzle or some other kind of puzzle? Well, that's an approach that my guest takes in this episode. And that's one of the things that we talk about. I'm Jeremy Cline, and this is Change Work Life.

Jeremy Cline 0:40
Hello, and welcome to the Change Work Life podcast, where we're all about beating the Sunday evening blues and enjoying Mondays again. I'm joined this week by Christina Eanes, who is a coach, speaker, author, podcaster, former FBI violent crime analyst and an escapelete. What is an escapelete, you may ask? We'll find that out very soon. Christina, welcome to the podcast.

Christina Eanes 1:01
Thank you so much, happy to be here.

Jeremy Cline 1:02
So, let's start here. Escapelete – or, escape room athlete, as I understand it's short for – you're into escape rooms in quite a big way, aren't you?

Christina Eanes 1:10
Just a little bit! First off, I have to give you kudos for properly saying escapelete – I've heard so many different ways it's been pronounced! But yes, my daughter introduced us. For her 21st birthday, she wanted to go to an escape room, and we're like, 'What is that? That sounds really stupid, we're gonna get locked in a room and we just have to solve a series of puzzles – we can do that at home!' And then one escape room later, we were hooked. And since then, it's been four years and almost 500 escape rooms that we've done in 20 countries and 22 states.

Jeremy Cline 1:42
So, what is it about the escape room experience that makes you want to do 500 of them?

Christina Eanes 1:47
I know! Very exciting. Each one is an adventure. Quickly, we learned – my husband and I are the ones that mainly do them, to the dismay of my daughter – you learn a lot about yourself and whoever you're in the room with. So, not only are we on an adventure, and we get challenged by cool puzzles and/or just experiences, because some of them are very set-like quality, like you're in the experience. But we also learn a lot about ourselves in the process. So, I'm like, I have to include this in my business, there's got to be some way. So, hence, we came out with the book.

Jeremy Cline 2:21
Can you talk a bit more about your business and how escape rooms fit into that?

Christina Eanes 2:25
Yeah, so, that is the latest version of how to learn more in life, how to grow. There's three books, the first one is Quit Bleeping Around, the second one is Secret to Super Productivity. And then the third one is Life is an Escape Room. And they all revolve around my business, which is Learn, Grow, Achieve. And I do that through speeches, through workshops, but essentially, it's helping that individual learn more about themselves, how they get in their own way, so they can grow, so they can achieve their goals better.

Jeremy Cline 2:54
And who do you help do that? Who's your ideal client or your typical client?

Christina Eanes 3:00
Good question. So, I have two different things. There's the individual, I have different products and services for the individual. And that, interestingly, it's very similar to my podcast listener group: 18 to 35, from all walks of life, that just want to have life be a little bit easier for themselves by getting out of their own way. And then I also have a group of instructors and coaches that we go in and do workshops and coaching for organisations. And that's in several different industries. We've done grocery, tech, government, contracting – so a whole bunch of different types of organisations. It's really essentially though people who just want to learn how to get out of their own way through emotional intelligence or communication, presenting, speaking, facilitating, coaching, giving feedback, all that kind of, for lack of a better term, soft skills related stuff.

Jeremy Cline 3:53
I feel like already that I'm almost certainly going to have to invite you back onto the podcast to talk about some of these things in more detail. But for the purpose of this conversation, I really wanted to find out more about you and your story, particularly with your history in law enforcement. Can you say more about when you started out in law enforcement? Was this the first job, first career that you went to after school, after college?

Christina Eanes 4:18
Yes, so, an interesting switch in college. I thought I always wanted to be a biologist, and I got into upper division courses. And at that time, I had also just had two children. I planned it out that way because – I don't plan as much now, but I didn't want to have to take maternity leave when I started my career. Goal oriented here! I wanted to do biology. I got up in those upper division courses. And then I realised, one, I don't care what's going on inside of a cell, what a Golgi apparatus does, or how DNA transcripts to RNA. I was like, okay, one, if I want to support my family, I would need to go further, like a Masters or a PhD, in order to effectively do that in the field of biology. Two, I've always thought of law enforcement as – it's fascinating to me, or it was fascinating to me, still is – but I didn't want to be a cop. Because anytime you talk to a cop, you would find that they've either been spit on and/or had to chase and wrestle a naked person. So, these were deep thoughts for a 20-something-year-old! Anyway. So, I thought, okay, I don't want to be a cop. But I know there's a lot of other types of positions in the field, so I'm just going to go switch all my coursework over to law enforcement, that gives me two years to figure it out before I get my degree. And so, it happened, I figured it out. By my senior year, I came upon the field of crime analysis. And I fell in love with it, because it is very much like puzzles, figuring out puzzles. And so, I went into that, I got certified in it. And then right out of college, I was able to get a position at a local police department, and this was in California in the US, and I became a general crime analyst.

Jeremy Cline 5:58
So, what does a crime analyst do?

Christina Eanes 6:00
Yeah, good question. A lot of people confuse it with criminal profiling, which it is not. In the general crime analyst role, I did a lot of different things. So, before I went to violent, I specialised in violent crime analysis. So, it would be doing crime stats for the city. 'Hey officers, we're up in burglaries in this area of the city. You need to go do more directed patrol here', or, 'Hey, we've had 15 larceny thefts with this particular MO, and I think it's the same group of people. Let's piece these together and try to figure out how we can go arrest them'. So, it's a lot of stats, a lot of data-driven type research, looking up stuff. That was the general type of crime analysis that I did. And you can also do a little bit of intel analysis on that, too. So, that would be like a street gang, figuring out who the players are, what the hierarchy is, different ways that you can send in the officers to maybe infiltrate the group or take out a key player to disband the group or whatever. So, that would be general crime and intelligence analysis, before I specialised.

Jeremy Cline 7:03
And how was the interaction between that and the cop that you see on TV? When I saw that you'd joined the California PD, I thought you were going to tell me stories like The Rookie, which is my new favourite cop show from America, maybe because I love the star in it, I was a big fan of previous stuff that he's been in. So, was it, yes, you're working with the guys who are going out and chasing the bad guys? Or were you slightly seen as the bean counters in the back who were out of touch with what was really going on?

Christina Eanes 7:34
So, good question. And that all depends on the analyst. Yes, some analysts were seen as the bean counter in the background, but I got my nose into everything. I would go on ride-alongs with the officers, I'd go to their briefings. And they appreciated me because I'd provide them with leads to help them. It's funny, because there was actually one point where we had – this was many, many years ago – we had an active arsonist in the city, and they would start cars on fire. And so, the officers were like, 'Okay, this seems random. How are we going to catch this guy?' And I actually did a data analysis on it. And I figured out that it wasn't random at all. And this is where we use math, folks, that we learned in school! I actually figured out through math, when and where he would hit again. And I was off by two hours. So, they were doing a stakeout in that area, and off by two hours, and he hit a car. And they thought I was magic. They didn't realise I was just using really simple math to figure this stuff out. Yes, it was me, and I still am Facebook friends 25 years later with several of these officers, because I went in and developed those relationships. Again, you can see a soft skills kind of theme throughout my life, which is why I'm now teaching about it and working with others to teach, too.

Jeremy Cline 8:50
And how did you become interested in particular in violent crime?

Christina Eanes 8:55
By age 30, I had hit as high as you could go as a civilian in the police department. And I was looking at, okay, I probably want to make this my career for the next 30 years. Little did I know. What do I do, because I want to grow and expand and I want to have a bigger impact on the world, essentially, that's always been my theme in life. So, I thought, okay, I'll just go join the FBI!

Jeremy Cline 9:15
As one does.

Christina Eanes 9:16
Why not! That's what one does. So, of course, I got to know a few of the analysts in the Violent Criminal Apprehension Program, because they coordinated with analysts all over the US. In particular with my state, I had one that I got to know and I really liked what she was doing on a daily basis. So, I thought, okay, can I apply for that job? She said, 'Hey, we have openings.' So I did, and I became an analyst then with the FBI's Violent Criminal Apprehension Program.

Jeremy Cline 9:43
Did you have a particular interest in violent crime at the time, or was this just because this was where the opening was?

Christina Eanes 9:49
There wasn't very many analysts at the federal level. I thought, of course, it was cool because it was helping to track serial killers and serial rapists and helping to get them off the streets. And I had an opportunity to work with all kinds of police departments. So, it was one of the unique roles where, as an analyst, I didn't work exclusively with FBI agents. I worked with my folks – cops, detectives. I had five states at any given time, and it was my job to coordinate with all the local, state and even federal agencies in those areas that investigated violent crimes. And I would get their cases in, I would train them on our software, because we had software that they could enter these violent crime cases into. Have you ever heard in the shows – and I think they even mentioned in The Rookie a couple of times – 'Have you checked ViCAP?' That's the database. So, we were in charge of maintaining that database and doing searches and trying to find similarities, it could be in location, it could be in method of operation, MO. There's a whole bunch of different things that we could search off of, and then we could get those agencies talking together so they could combine evidence and hopefully put people away for multiple crimes.

Jeremy Cline 11:06
Just by its nature, it sounds like a fairly gruesome subject area. Was this something either that you were shielded from because you were one step removed? Or was it something where you just had to shield yourself mentally or emotionally against the details that I'm sure you were party to?

Christina Eanes 11:24
Yeah, both. One, we were removed. Sometimes we were working on cases that were 30, 40 years old, that we were helping on. So, we were dealing with data. And of course, there were pictures and videos and stuff that went along with it. But we never actually would go to the scene, because the local agency would do that initial response and all of that stuff, and they would call us in later when they needed assistance. So, it was purely analytical. You are exposed to some pretty gruesome stuff, yes, so you do have to compartmentalise, but you do get a sick sense of humour anyway when you're in the field of law enforcement. I've been out of violent crime analysis for just over 10 years now, and I finally stopped looking for bodies along the side of the road probably about 5 years ago. I know I laugh, but I guess it's just a way to compartmentalise. I looked at it as puzzles I needed to solve.

Jeremy Cline 12:15
You mentioned anticipating this 30-year career. So, when you first joined the FBI, what were your expectations as to what your career trajectory might look like?

Christina Eanes 12:28
When I joined the unit, I actually realised that there wasn't any trajectory. There wasn't any trajectory available, you were an analyst and that was it. So, I did it for a number of years. And I thought, you know what, I want to go back up into management and leadership, because before I left the police department, I was a supervising crime analyst. I thought, I want to go back up into management and leadership. And this was about seven years in, and it helped, at the time, I had a boss I didn't really get along with very well, so I'm like, maybe it is time for a change. And I had always on the side, done some sort of training. So, I taught criminal justice in college for a number of years, actually, just right out of college I was teaching criminal justice classes. So I'd always had training background as well, always had multiple jobs. The FBI was then developing a robust leadership development programme, reimagining everything that they had done before. I thought, I need to be a part of that. One, I can be a leader, two, I can get more into training. And I do love these soft skills. Let me try those on. Let me give them a try-on and see how I can do.

Jeremy Cline 13:37
Was this a new programme when you joined it?

Christina Eanes 13:40
Yes, a brand-new programme launching. Now, they had always had some sort of leadership programme, but it was mainly for agents, which is only a third of the entire FBI population. And so, this was a new comprehensive programme, where we actually ended up training 6,000 from line level up to executive leaders over two years. It was a very rewarding programme for me.

Jeremy Cline 14:04
What was it like being in a brand-new programme? I'm guessing lots of cultural sensitivities to deal with?

Christina Eanes 14:12
I guess more the analogy would be, you're building a plane while you're flying it. So, it was more of a, we have 150 people coming to a week-long training in two months. So, let's put together every possible thing we can to make sure that one, they have instructors and curriculum while they're there, and then all the logistics related to that of lodging and food and flights and travel and all of that stuff.

Jeremy Cline 14:38
What results did you see from this training?

Christina Eanes 14:40
I didn't stay too long after we did it, because I had figured out, I love this so much, my kids are leaving the house, the nest – so I'm going to go out and open my own company to do that. But during the launch, we saw, at least I thought, quite a change from more of your traditional manager type mindset to more of a leadership type mindset.

Jeremy Cline 15:02
So, how long were you doing it before you were starting to think, 'I'm gonna go and do this somewhere else?'

Christina Eanes 15:08
It was about three years in. I came around and I thought, you know what, I started out as an entrepreneur as a kid. You name it, I was figuring out ways to make money off of it at age 10. So, I thought, you know what, I don't have to be that stable force for my children anymore. Because they're leaving the nest, they're supporting themselves. So, maybe it's time to go out and do that. One of the turning points was when we were putting together a class on facilitation, because that was a new thing. Normally, it's the instructor leads from the front and bestows their wisdom on everyone. This was more of a, hey, let's use the experience in the room through asking powerful questions to have everyone learn from each other in the room. So, it was a new concept of facilitation. So, we were tasked with putting together a course like that, and it took four months to develop, and another three or four months to deliver, which drove me crazy, because I thought – a client needs a course, I could put it together in two to three days and have it ready to launch the next week. And then of course, I would be making all the money off of it. That's a bonus. But the more idea is I get to help people, I get to help them quickly, I can launch things. And so, that's what started that idea of, hey, I can do this, and I can do this through my own business. And then we had a government shutdown for a couple of weeks. And then I realised, okay, yeah, I can really do this. I left and opened my own business.

Jeremy Cline 16:34
So you realised that you could do it. But why did you want to do it?

Christina Eanes 16:38
Because it's exciting. It's almost like that escape room adventure, right? You don't know quite what's coming around the next corner. And you know that as an entrepreneur, that your income is completely – well, essentially – dependent on you. You are your own limitation. And I didn't like limitations. So, I knew I could figure out how I could continually expand and do whatever I wanted to do on a daily basis, essentially.

Jeremy Cline 17:05
So, what was it that you recognised this could do for you that staying in your then job or moving to a similar job elsewhere wasn't going to do for you?

Christina Eanes 17:14
I love that question. So, essentially, no limits. I did not have anyone telling me what I needed to do, how long it needed to take. One of my huge values is autonomy, independence, innovation, creativity. So, there weren't any limits on that anymore. I could take it wherever I wanted, however I wanted. Of course, with great power comes great responsibility! Yeah. So, along those lines, I knew it wouldn't be easy. It would be hard work. But I also knew that there would be no more limits on what I could do and when I could do it.

Jeremy Cline 17:46
And what was the reaction of family when you started to talk about wanting to do this?

Christina Eanes 17:51
Good question! It wasn't a surprise at all, because they know my personality. I don't like being held back in any way. And so, no surprise. The kids, obviously, 'Go mom!' And my husband was supportive, because he's got a nice, steady government job, and he likes it. So, they were very supportive: 'Go for it.'

Jeremy Cline 18:10
You mentioned how you felt you were able to do this once your children had grown up and left the nest. Looking back, is it something that you figure now that you could have done and still provided for them when they were living at home, and perhaps wish you had?

Christina Eanes 18:29
Great question, and I've actually got a question similar to that in a job interview once – if you could go back and change anything, would you? And my response is always: 'Absolutely not', because every experience that I had up until this point, made me who I am today. And so, if I hadn't had all of those experiences that I did – one, I really enjoyed crime analysis, I did really enjoy the leadership development programme. But if I hadn't had all those interactions with people, even the adverse ones in our lives, I wouldn't have the experience, and what I do now – all of the chutzpah – to go after everything that I am today.

Jeremy Cline 19:07
That's very interesting, because I've spoken to a few people on this podcast – it has to be said, women – who have left either starting their own business or going through a radical change of career until such time as they feel that they have fewer responsibilities. Maybe the mortgage is paid off or the kids have left or whatever. But the message that you've just given, that, yes, they did wait, but also, they've been able to draw on previous experience, that is something that has really helped them. A few weeks ago, I interviewed an accountant – she was an accountant, she's now started her own dog behaviour training business and she was saying just that. Initially her job was there because she knew she was going to be supporting her family, but now that her kids have grown up, she's got more time for herself to pursue what she wants.

Christina Eanes 19:57
Yeah, so it is a combination of it. I wouldn't change any of it. Initially, I was doing it for security purposes, but now when I look back I realise that it's really made me who I am, and it's given me all of that experience that I can use to help to relate to others that are currently in those kind of positions.

Jeremy Cline 20:15
When you were first thinking about starting the business, and when you were taking those first steps, what was your plan, if you had one at the time?

Christina Eanes 20:24
I did have one. It's been similar, it's been: 'I'm going to plan what I can for now.' And as we've all learned from experiencing 2020, the best laid plans... So, how I've always run my business is, I have a plan, but I have it so much so that I can scale up very quickly or scale down very quickly if I need to. And I have it very diversified. So, if one area tends to start puttering out, I can jump into another area and focus more of my attention in that area. So, I've always had it where I can pivot at any given moment, for whatever the market or my creativity is requiring.

Jeremy Cline 21:10
Can you give an example of the scaling up and scaling down, so how you've got your business in a position where you can do that?

Christina Eanes 21:16
Sure. So building a lot of relationships and collaborative partnerships. Right now, I have several instructors and coaches. They also have their own businesses, but they also interact with me and are contract instructors and coaches for me. So, I don't have any full-time employees, but I have partnerships where I can utilise a whole team of amazing instructors in the classroom, virtual or in person, and amazing coaches in the classroom – or, not in the classroom – virtual or in person, at a moment's notice. And I'm constantly creating new collaborative partnerships. I have a professional development catalogue of workshops, three-hour workshops, generally, a couple of them are a little bit longer, that we supplement companies with. However, if I have a company that wants something that I don't offer, I've developed collaborative partnerships with others. For example, there's one company that I work with that has stellar leadership development programmes. So, if I have a client who wants a leadership development programme, I bring in that partner and we both work together to make sure the client gets what they want. So, it's all through those collaborative partnerships that you can tap into at any given point and just making sure that you're care and feeding and maintaining all of those relationships so that we can scale up and down very quickly.

Jeremy Cline 22:35
And was this a deliberate way of setting up your business so you have got this flexibility of pulling in contractors and leaving them be when you don't need them?

Christina Eanes 22:43
Yes. Another theme, I don't like limits! I want to be able to adjust on the fly for anything that I need to.

Jeremy Cline 22:52
So, what's your long-term vision or goal for the business? Are you ever going to be done, do you think?

Christina Eanes 22:58
I've learned not to have a long-term goal based on my past! So, I thought, oh, I'd be in crime analysis for 30 years. And then I thought oh, well, I'll be in the government for 30 years. And then every few years, I get an idea of, maybe I just want to go in a different direction. So, now, I've purposely built my business out where I can do that. So, I have Christina Eanes, I have Quit Bleeping Around, which is a podcast and a book, I have the Secret to Super Productivity, which is a book, a workshop and a speech. I have Life is an Escape Room, which is a book, a workshop, and a speech. And then I have the professional development catalogue. But I built my business, and why I call it Christina Eanes LLC is so whatever that next thing comes down the pike is, I can just add that to the umbrella. Total flexibility.

Jeremy Cline 23:48
Was this all stuff that you figured out yourself, or have you had your own coaching to help you how to structure things in this pretty sophisticated way?

Christina Eanes 23:59
I read a book or two a week, non-fiction. I also read fiction too, but a book or two non-fiction a week on a whole bunch of different things. Business, mindset, emotional intelligence. So, I'm constantly reading, and I pick and choose little things from all of the different resources that will work for me. And then of course, knowing what my values are about autonomy, no limits, that kind of thing. I don't want to be constricted in any way, I figured out the best way to build the business around that to help me have that freedom.

Jeremy Cline 24:31
When you've got all this information, and I'm sure there are loads and loads of good ideas, how do you work out which ones are worth implementing? And perhaps more importantly, how do you work out which ones to say no to? Shiny object syndrome!

Christina Eanes 24:48
Yes, that is what, squirrel, right? So, I actually have an idea book, both written and electronic, OneNote, and as soon as I get an idea, I'll make note of it, and I'm not allowed to action on it right away. I have to let it sit for a little bit – sometimes it's a week, sometimes it's a few months – but it has to sit for a little bit, and then I revisit it. And then I think, okay, is this worth my time and money right now? I have a few little criteria that I ask myself. Is this income generating? Will it bring me joy? Will it help others? Can I involve others, like collaborative partnerships, in it? So, I go through a little criteria. And if it hits 'yes' on most of them, I'll jump in and do it. And oftentimes, what I like to do is I'll create something after I sell it. So, if I get an idea, and I think it's a good one, I'll run it past clients. If they like it, say, for example, like the topic of a course or a speech, I'll book it out, a month or two. Once it's booked, and I have a client who's interested and paying in it, I'll actually develop it then. That's how I launched my first book. I had an outline form, and I thought, I like this topic, and then I shopped it around for a speech, and I booked a speech with 100 sold copies, and a book signing after the speech, three months later. So, once I had that client in hand, then you better believe it, I wrote out that book in about four weeks. And then of course, went through the editing process, and all of that and the production process, but I will often sell an idea to make sure that it does have interest before I fully develop it.

Jeremy Cline 26:24
Do you think you're ever going to retire?

Christina Eanes 26:26
No! Never, ever. I will always do something in some form or fashion.

Jeremy Cline 26:33
Which bits do you think you'll want to hang on to? And which bits will you get other people to do?

Christina Eanes 26:39
So, I do get into trouble of trying to do too much myself, because I just love it all and I want to do it. But then I remember that there's other people that can help with that. So, I will assign out the workshops and the coaching to my contractors. And then I'll focus on the creating – like the YouTube channel, the podcast, the next book, whenever that is, it generally reveals itself about a few months after one's been published. And then I focus my time on that.

Jeremy Cline 27:04
So what's the most difficult bit about your business? I'm sure that you've constructed it so that you're enjoying at least the vast majority of it. But there's got to be some bits which you go, 'Oh god no, I don't want to do that.'

Christina Eanes 27:17
So, I do love the videos and the podcasts, and I generally try to get two to three months ahead in my release schedule. But when it comes down to, I have to produce it, that's when I get, 'Oh, do I have to do it, I have to write today? Do I have to do this?' But if I'm ahead and I can just listen to my creative whims and follow them when I need to, not a problem. But if it gets down to okay, you've got something that needs to go out next week, you have to write something. That's when I'm like, 'Oh, okay, fine'.

Jeremy Cline 27:45
You've mentioned two non-fiction or one to two non-fiction books a week. Any in particular which stand out, which you think is worth recommending to my listeners?

Christina Eanes 27:54
Yes. Actually I do book reviews on my YouTube channel, and I love this one. It's called How to Have a Good Day by Caroline Webb. Have you heard of that one?

Jeremy Cline 28:05
No, I haven't actually, no.

Christina Eanes 28:06
Okay, so the title did not interest me at all. I'm like, I know how to have a good day. I don't need to read this book. I have great days every day! But then I picked it up and I started looking at the chapters. And it has so much information packed in there, like mindset, perception, emotional intelligence, managing your energy and more, all in a nice concise way. So, she's gone and done all the research and it's nicely packed into a book that's not overwhelming, and gives great tips. So, I would highly recommend that one. There's many, many others I recommend, but right now, that's the one that really comes to mind.

Jeremy Cline 28:42
I'll certainly put a link to that in the show notes. It's been great hearing your story. Where can people go and find you?

Christina Eanes 28:48
The main website, of course, I have several, is christinaeanes.com.

Jeremy Cline 28:52
Fantastic. I will put a link in the show notes to that as well. Christina, thank you so much. I'm sure we will be speaking again before too long, but in the meantime, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

Christina Eanes 29:03
Thank you. It's been my pleasure.

Jeremy Cline 29:04
Okay, hope you enjoyed that interview with Christina Eanes. I really like the approach that Christina has taken in treating everything as though it's a puzzle of some kind. Now, obviously, in her case she takes it to a bit of an extreme, having done 500 escape rooms, but there's definitely something to be said for her approach of looking at a particular problem or difficulty that you may have in your life and breaking it down and treating it as though it is a puzzle to be solved.

Jeremy Cline 29:32
There are a couple of other points that hit home for me which I think are worth drawing out. One is this idea of when she gets a new idea, she puts this away – she said that she uses an electronic service to do this – but she puts it away and forces herself to wait for a period of time and then come back to it before considering whether or not to take it forward or not. And then even when she does come back to it, she asks herself a lot of questions – is this going to fit, is this going to achieve what I want it to do in the context of everything else that I've got on? Shiny object syndrome is something which is really quite common – you're a bit bored of something, you see something new and shiny come along, and you want to give it a go. The trouble with that is that you end up with a load of half-started things that you never end up taking forward and finishing. And so this practice of Christina's to delay implementing a new idea is a really good approach.

Jeremy Cline 30:29
She also echoed the value of having diversity in your income, in her case diversity in her business and the different income streams that she has. But this is something that you can apply whether you've got a business or not. If the last year has shown us anything, it's how circumstances can change, and how being reliant on one single source of income is really potentially dangerous, especially if that's a job that a global pandemic could suddenly bring to an end. It's a theme that's come up a few times, so do go back and listen to previous episodes. A great one to start with is Episode 27 with Pete Matthew of Meaningful Money.

Jeremy Cline 31:09
There's a summary of everything we've talked about, a full transcript of the interview with Christina and links to all the resources mentioned, as well as how you can get hold of Christina in the show notes page for this episode at changeworklife.com/74. I'm really keen to get this podcast out to a wider audience during 2021, and if any of the episodes in the podcast have helped you, then they're going to help other people. And one way you can help me spread the word is by leaving a review, ideally on Apple Podcasts. If you've got any kind of Apple device, an iPhone or an iPad, you are almost certainly going to have an Apple podcasts app, and you can use that to leave a review. It would be great if you did, it really does help push the show up the rankings and helps other people find it. Five-star reviews are always appreciated, but if for some reason you didn't think the show's worth a five-star review, I'd actually really like you to get in touch and tell me why not, how it can improve. And you can do that by visiting changeworklife.com/contact. There's another great interview coming your way next week and I can't wait to see you then. Cheers. Bye.