Episode 106: How to make yourself visible at work and increase your chances of promotion – with Valissa Pierrelouis of Stand Out Career Guide

Episode 106: How to make yourself visible at work and increase your chances of promotion - with Valissa Pierrelouis of Stand Out Career Guide

Jeremy Cline 0:00
You're good at your job, you work hard, you get great performance reviews, but you just don't seem to get the recognition you feel you deserve. In particular, you just can't seem to get that promotion that you're after. So, what do you do about it? That's what we talk about in this episode. I'm Jeremy Cline, and this is Change Work Life.

Jeremy Cline 0:31
Hello, and welcome to the Change Work Life podcast, the show that's all about beating the Sunday evening blues and enjoying Mondays again. Now, most of you listening to this podcast are probably really good at your job. But is being good at what you do enough these days? Is being good at what you do enough to get you promoted? Is it enough to stop you being made redundant? That's what we're going to talk about this week. And I'm delighted to have on the show, Valissa Pierrelouis. Valissa achieved three promotions in five years during her career in financial services. And she's now the founder of Standout Career Guide where she helps driven corporate female leaders find where to ramp up their voice, value and visibility to land their next promotion. Valissa, welcome to the show.

Valissa Pierrelouis 1:15
Thank you so much, Jeremy. I'm glad to be here.

Jeremy Cline 1:19
So, could you start off by telling us a little bit about the people you help? I mean, where are they in their career when they first come to you?

Valissa Pierrelouis 1:27
Oh, yes, absolutely. When women first come to me, of course, they're driven career women, they're working hard, and two things have really emerged. They're either challenged with getting to that next level, to that desire, opportunity, that promotion, or they're ready to make a change, and they're just not clear on their vision. And they need help with a strategy and understanding what it is they'd like to do next, and then how to position themselves for that.

Jeremy Cline 2:04
And is the manner in which you help them broadly the same for both those two types of people? I mean, in both cases, is it kind of visioning and seeing where they want to end up?

Valissa Pierrelouis 2:14
Oh, absolutely. That's a great question, Jeremy. It is first getting a sense of what their core values are, what's important to them, what skills they want to use, what type of environment they want to work in. It's really a lot of internal work first, just figuring out what do you want, what are you envisioning, and that's the most important piece. If we don't do that, then coming up with an effective strategy is not going to happen. They're just going to spin their wheels. For instance, one woman, she came to me, hardworking, she's an accountant, she probably was working about 60 hours per week, saying yes to every assignment, and it didn't align with who she is as a person and what she wants her life to be like outside of work, which is volunteerism, spending time with her family. And when I talked to her initially, she wanted to find another job like that, because she had pursued a degree in accounting. And everything she told me, as I went through this assessment of what is she good at, what are her challenges, what doesn't she want to do in her next role, all of that, it came out that she really didn't want to do that type of job again, but she was kind of stuck that she wanted to do that, stuck in her mindset that she wanted to do that type of job, because she had invested in getting a degree in accounting. Once we went through all of the questions, what she really wanted was a role in operations, where she could work collaboratively, where she could work on improving processes, where she could mentor and lead people, which was the total opposite of what she was doing then. And so, once she understood what she really wanted, she was able to zone in on those opportunities, but also after our sessions, she was able to go to her manager and say, 'This is what I want. This is where I want to be in a certain amount of time.' And from that conversation, she and her manager talked about a new career path, where she would not have done that before and she could not have articulated it. And those are the type of instances that just make me really excited for my clients and makes what I do so fulfilling. Because she just had her own 'aha moment' when what she said to me was, 'Just the questions that you asked me', because coaching isn't about giving the answers, it's about asking questions to help someone get to what they want, versus being told what they want. Because oftentimes, we're trying to live up to someone else's expectations of what we should do.

Jeremy Cline 5:29
Going back into the history of your career and how you've ended up doing what you do now, how did you start working in financial services in the first place?

Valissa Pierrelouis 5:40
Wow, I've been in financial services, I worked my way through college, I had a full-time job as I worked through college, and banking was where I ended up. I had a friend that had gotten a job at a bank, and she said, 'Hey, they're hiring at this bank, and they said, "Hey, if you know any other students that are looking for work, tell them to apply."' And I almost didn't apply because I said, 'Oh, I've applied to that bank many times, they never called me.' I ended up getting a call and started out as a clerk, and then on a technical help desk. That was pivotal for my career, because after a year or two, I was tapped for my first leadership role. And it was actually in the payment space, so credit card processing. I really fell in love with that industry and spent two years in that industry, both for a start-up and for a large regional financial institution, executive leadership roles at both of those organisations. And what I loved about it was challenge, it was challenging, it was variety and yeah, I was always learning and growing, and that's something that is important for me personally. That's something that I need to have in a role.

Jeremy Cline 7:06
You talked in relation to the people you help about the challenges of being promoted, you mentioned one of the types of people that you help are those who are looking to take the next step up in a new career, and I know, you mentioned on your website how, even though you were getting good performance reviews, you were struggling with promotion, particularly sort of in the earlier stages of your career. Can you talk a little bit about that? What in retrospect was going on or not going on that was making getting promoted such an issue, even though you were getting these good performance reviews?

Valissa Pierrelouis 7:45
Yeah, absolutely. What I found, so before I went to the last financial institution, prior to that, I worked for the start-up. So, I'll share a little background and then all the context will make more sense as I move into the financial institution. While working for the start-up, I went from out of college to the first official management role, customer care manager, and worked my way up in that organisation to an executive leader reporting directly to the owner, being his right hand. Fast forward to the next, and I will share that that led to a job elimination also, that's how I ended up leaving the start-up, but fast forward, I was recruited by this $20 billion financial institution for a much bigger role, more responsibility, more financial compensation, and corporate. Corporate is different from a start-up environment. In a start-up environment, you are wearing lots of hats, you are learning lots of things, it's all about getting things done, doing a lot, there's a lot of doing. Okay. Move to the financial institution, I'm still that person that's doing, right? And getting things done and performing well. As I shared, year one, again, like you said, performance reviews, and that performance review lead to being tapped to lead a project, a large project. And again, great reviews, again working hard, working lots of hours. And year three, same thing, no promotions. And so, finally, I'm asking myself what am I doing wrong. I'm obviously missing something here. What is it, in my upbringing, in my past experience, at the other organisation, working hard and getting things done, that got me where I wanted.

Jeremy Cline 10:01
Was there an obvious path at this stage? I mean, was there something that you could see, not just that you weren't getting promoted, but you could see something ahead of you that you weren't getting promoted to?

Valissa Pierrelouis 10:11
Finally, I stopped, when I got to year three, I said, 'I need to get outside of my bubble.' Because basically, that's, you know, this is what I've done before that's gotten me what I wanted, and I needed to get someone's insight that worked there in the bank and they have achieved what I would like to achieve. And so, I started thinking about, okay, who can I reach out to, who can I talk to. I spoke to one woman and said, 'Hey, could you mentor me?' And she didn't have the capacity to take on a mentor, but offered to introduce me to another woman, another executive, that was a couple levels up from me, who already had a mentor, but then told me about a corporate programme. And I was a part, I participated in that programme. So, that was a good start.

Jeremy Cline 11:03
The conversations there, I mean, how did you know that what you needed was mentorship? And how did you think about asking this first person? Because it's quite a scary thing, actually, it's quite a vulnerable thing to do, to go up to someone and say, 'Hi, I need a mentor.' So, yeah, tell me a bit about that.

Valissa Pierrelouis 11:25
I would say, hey, if my way isn't working, I am a reflective person or introspective person, and I said to myself, 'What I'm doing is not working. And there are women here in positions, at the level that I would like to be, and who do I know, who do I have a connection with?' And so, the first woman that I asked when I arrived to the company, because I relocated from where I grew up my entire life, to a new state, to a new place, where I didn't know anyone, this particular woman was a peer, well, she wasn't a peer, she was a step up from my direct manager when I got to the company. And she would often check in on me and say, 'Hey, how are things going? I'm hearing good things about you. I'm hearing good things about your work.' And so, I felt like she would be, based on where she was in the organisation and the interest she showed to me when I first arrived at the organisation, that she was a person that I could talk to and ask for advice. So, that's how I chose person number one. Then person number two, she introduced me to someone, to that person. And then, that person introduced me to another person to get into this mentor-mentee programme.

Jeremy Cline 12:51
What was the reaction of person number one when you asked her? I mean, you said that she said that she didn't have capacity to mentor you. But I mean, was her reaction one of sort of surprise, sort of, 'Hmm, I didn't expect you to ask that', or was it sort of knew it was coming, or was she grateful to be asked, or was her approach 'Yeah, this is the sort of thing I do', what was her reaction?

Valissa Pierrelouis 13:13
That's a good question. If my memory serves me, I believe she said to me... Well, I'll share the feeling that I got, because I really don't remember. That is a good question. I remember her saying, 'Hey, I want to help, I don't have the capacity, but let me find you some help. And good for you.' That's the sense that I got from that conversation.

Jeremy Cline 13:40
The reason I wanted to ask you that is because I think a lot of people will have fears about approaching people to ask that sort of question. But clearly, your experience has been that yes, this person wasn't able to help you themselves directly, but A, they were grateful that you did it, B, they thought that was the right thing that you did it, and C, even though they weren't able to help you themselves, they were able to point you in the direction of someone who was.

Valissa Pierrelouis 14:03
Yes. And that's a great point, because that's what I found most of. If someone can help you, they will, more times than not, think of someone that can, as long as your ask is clear. And so, my ask was, 'I'd like a mentor, here's why: I'm getting this positive feedback, these performance reviews that exceed expectations, yet I'm not moving forward. So, I believe that I need to learn how to navigate a corporate environment versus a start-up environment. And I admire what you do and what you achieved here. Would you be willing to mentor me?' And that was my ask.

Jeremy Cline 14:50
So, you got into this corporate programme. And what did you learn from that? What changed? What did it teach you to do that was kind of the 'aha moment'?

Valissa Pierrelouis 15:00
This particular corporate programme, and this was my first time experiencing a programme this way, and having gone through it, I would take a more proactive approach to what I want out of my mentor. So, honestly, this particular programme, I didn't feel that it was as fruitful, that mentor-mentee relationship, I actually feel like I got more out of the introduction to the woman that told me about the mentor-mentee programme. So, I would say what I got out of that programme is to take ownership for what I would like to get out of that type of relationship, set expectations about here's what I want to learn, here's what I'm looking for. So, fast forward, out of those relationships, and again, I'm thinking in my memory banks, I'm feeling like I still need more, I'm still not quite clear on what I need to do, I feel like I didn't have an actionable step. And so, I thought back to another woman that I met early on in my career there, my direct manager reported to her. And there were no women in the C-suite when I first got to this financial institution, and now this woman was in the C-suite. And I shared the same thing that I shared with the other women, that I wanted to build a career there, successful career there, and how could I navigate? What more could I do? And during the conversation, you know, I receive affirmations about what I was doing and my performance, but I just still hadn't got, again, something that I could latch on to. But I made a friend, a mentor, who gave me one question to ask, which was pivotal in that conversation. And that question was, 'What are you hearing about me?' Now, that's a scary question to ask someone. What are you hearing about me? And she said to me, 'Valissa, that is a good question. And I'm not hearing anything about you. That's the one thing you want to work on.' My mind was blown. I hadn't thought about that. Because of this particular organisation, our promotions go up to that level of approval. And my next question was, 'How do I become visible?' How do I get that? How do I get people talking about me, or knowing about my work, I should say? And she said, 'Get involved on committees, get to know people outside of other areas if you're not, outside of your area and other areas if you're not doing that, you know, find out what's going on in the organisation.' Of course, my follow-up question was, 'What committees exist?' And she said, 'I knew you were going to ask that.' And she didn't have any at the top of her head, but she'd given me what I needed, which is an actionable step. And so, I created my own 10-30 challenge I called it, just reach out and talk to 10 people in 30 days, meet for coffee or meet for lunch or meet for dinner even. And I just sent them a simple one-or-two sentence email and said, 'Hey, I am trying to get better about reaching out and connecting with others in the organisation and learning about what you do and what you're involved in and just pushing myself outside of my comfort zone.' And I didn't know how many people would actually saying yes. I didn't expect everyone to say yes. I expected maybe a few people. But all 10 people said yes. And out of those 10 people, I would say a third said, 'Oh my goodness, this is something I've been meaning to do.' And I was also working with a coach at the time. So, I invested in a coach as well. And this was one of the things I told her that I committed to, that I would do. And she was also like, 'That's a great idea.' And it was, it really was helpful in making those connections and understanding what else was going on in the organisation, because if I stayed in my bubble, in my department, or just the people that I come into contact with on a day-to-day basis, that just didn't give me a view of what else was possible outside of my particular department.

Jeremy Cline 20:06
So, can you talk to some of the sort of specific things that you learned to or did and how they directly lead to the first promotion you got?

Valissa Pierrelouis 20:16
I will say the first thing that I did, after having those conversations, they just helped me be much more comfortable in saying what I was interested in, what I wanted, again, the friend and mentor, she shared with me a woman, an executive, she is an author, she is an executive on Wall Street. Her name is Carla Harris, she has a book called Strategize to Win. There's a lot of videos out there about her, so I started watching her as well. And one of the things that really stuck out to me in that was expressing what you want. Visibility was one thing, but communicating clearly what I wanted, versus making assumptions that my manager knew what I wanted, was a big deal. So, my manager asked, that was my third manager in the organisation actually, he asked if I was happy in the role, and my honest response to him was, 'I am underutilised. I like to be challenged. I would like to do more. And instead of my career moving forward in this department, it's moved backwards. So, I am looking for opportunities to challenge myself and where I can contribute in a more meaningful way.' And he appreciated that candid feedback and asked what I would like to do. So, I shared that. And he said, 'Well, I'm just getting here. I have some ideas, I can't make any guarantees. And I'm not asking you to stop looking. But I do know I do have some ideas.' And that was that conversation. And the next thing you know, I was getting more responsibility, more money, and feeling a lot better about making meaningful contributions and being valued and appreciated. When it came time to, okay, I'm ready to make another move, I was tapped to create this new department and build a team from scratch. And I did that for a year, going on two years. But going on into year two, I said, 'Okay, I'm ready to be at vice president level.' And I wrote down three points, and this was from the book Strategize to Win, Carla Harris, three points of why I was ready and deserving of that promotion. So, I went to my manager, feeling like I'd had this conversation before, but I didn't, because I just said things in passing about being a vice president. I wrote it on my self-assessment before a performance review. Early on, when he got there, I said, 'Hey, we don't have any female vice presidents in our department. You're going to change that, right?' There were just two brief mentions of it, but I never sat down and had a conversation and said, 'Here is what I want, here's why I feel I'm deserving, here's the impact that I've made.' And when I had that conversation with him, he said he supported me, but he also said something else that was telling. And that was, 'I didn't know you were interested in vice president.' That told me that I had not communicated it clearly and in a meaningful way, and that I was part of why I hadn't moved yet. When I look back, that is what I get out of it. I was working hard. Yes, that's important. But you have to do more than just work hard. You have to build those relationships. You have to communicate what you want. You have to communicate what you do and how you're doing it. You have to understand what other people want, and what they're doing, and what's going on in your environment. And you have to be able to communicate your value. And those are some of the things I learned. So, four insights when you're thinking about moving forward in your career, creating a strategy to move forward in your career, and that's gaining some awareness around yourself, what do you want, what are your talents, your team, understand the people around you, what they do, what they're involved in, where your strengths may complement their weaknesses, what their priorities are, and your team includes your manager and your department, or division, leadership, the company overall, your reputation, what are you known for, are you known, do people know what you do, how you do, how you do it and what value it brings, in your environment, how are things done there. So, one thing that was new at that organisation was they came out with guidelines, kind of criteria that you had to meet to be considered for promotion to the executive level. And that came out around the time, it came out after my manager and I had that conversation and he said he supported it. But then this outline came out shortly after that and so, he was able to craft that and just be my champion, and we got it, it was approved. So, yeah, I learned a lot in just struggling to get to that next level, not just about what steps I needed to take, but about myself. And that's what I find in talking to other women is, often there may be some obstacles that are in our way that we need to navigate, but more times than not, there are also things that we're doing that is getting in our way.

Jeremy Cline 20:19
I'd like to fast forward to your transition from what you were doing then to what you're doing now. So, you have these three promotions in five years, and then I gather, you basically lost your jobs, you were made redundant. So, having got these three promotions in five years, what was your reaction when you found out that you were going to be out of a job?

Valissa Pierrelouis 26:53
That is a great question, Jeremy. This was the second job elimination I've been through in my 20+ year career. And the first time that happened, at the start-up, I took it really hard because my identity was wrapped up in what I did for a living. And this time, no one likes to lose their job, so I won't act like it was a good, fun thing. But what I will say is my mindset was totally different when it happened this time than when it happened the first time. And to sum it up, it's something that Thasunda Brown Duckett says, she's now the CEO of TIAA, she says, 'I rent my title, I own my character', or 'I lease my title, and I own my character.' And while I was disappointed that that role ended, we had just had some restructures, we had some leadership changes, a new leader came in and looked at things, and the role was changing. And it's funny, prior to that happening, I was considering and looking for that next opportunity. And so, it was just okay, this was an opportunity to really put some energy behind what I really wanted to do and where I wanted to go next. And as I thought about that, because it was in 2020, I said, 'I want to do something meaningful.' Like what's important to me? What matters? What do I want to leave in this world? What do I want to contribute to this world? And I went through a programme where it took us through this process. What have you overcome in your life? What have you achieved? What do you like doing with your time? Like what types of activities outside of work and what activities at work brought you most pleasure? And just looking at those things I've always said I would be an entrepreneur in some fashion, but it needed to be something that meant something to me. And last summer, I discovered in talking to my nephew, I said, 'I want to help other women, as I know I'm not the only woman that thought working hard alone would get you to that next level. And how important mentors are and coaches and understanding yourself and your team, your reputation and the environment that you operate in. I know I'm not the first.' Had I known some of these things earlier, I could have benefited and reaped the rewards sooner. That's what I want for other women. So, that's when I started Standout Career Guide. It was something that meant something to me personally, it was something that's meaningful, and I have been someone that mentors young girls and women, just if I looked back, most of my life, even from a young kid, tutoring people. And so, I started my coaching practice. And it started out really being a help to me as I was searching for a new role, a new W2 role. And having gone through that, women would come to me to help them with that. Because in spite of going through this job elimination, I'm on LinkedIn, and I'm putting out polls, and they're positive polls and people going, 'You just lost your job, how are you out here inspiring other people? And how do you do it?' And for me, when you focus on helping other people, it just took the pressure off, but it also took the focus off of me.

Jeremy Cline 31:32
So, now you've been doing the coaching for give or take a year or so? Where's it going to go next? Is this your path now? Do you think you're going to stick with the coaching? Or do you think you'll go back into corporate life? What is your own personal vision for where you want to end up?

Valissa Pierrelouis 31:47
I am absolutely sticking with the coaching. I am a coach at heart. I also do have a W2 role. I accepted a role as customer success manager for a tech firm. And they have a very entrepreneurial, think-like-an-owner culture. So, the schedule is flexible, they celebrate who you are outside of the company, and this particular role, it allows me to also experience those dynamics that my clients are experiencing on a day-to-day basis. So, right now, I'm going to do both. Yes, they know that I'm doing the coaching, and they celebrate it. And in fact, when they introduce you, when they introduced me to the team, 'This is Valissa, and she owns a business, she has her own coaching practice. And she's a coach.' And another person on my team, he is a basketball coach. And another person on our team is the CFO in their own company. They just embrace this entrepreneurship, they see it as a value add to their organisation versus a threat. And so, that's very interesting. And I sought out this organisation, because of the culture, but also because it's a tech firm. And in my mind, that will make me even more relevant. And it also adds value to me as I continue to grow and develop my business, because they are entrepreneurs at heart.

Jeremy Cline 33:41
You've mentioned a couple of resources as we've been talking. Are there any other resources, books, quotes, anything which you'd like to share that has been particularly helpful for you or which you find yourself recommending to other people or your clients?

Valissa Pierrelouis 33:55
Yeah, I will share two books in one quote. The first book, which is one reason why I'm here is Build Your Dream Network by J. Kelly Hoey.

Jeremy Cline 34:10
And if that name sounds familiar, you will recognise that I have had her on my podcast before, and I'll put a link to the episode. I don't have the number offhand, but I'll put a link to that episode in the show notes.

Valissa Pierrelouis 34:20
Yes. And Kelly, she has really took the pressure off of what networking is. The networking mindset is so totally different from schmoozing and all of those things. In fact, she says that introverts make the best networkers, and I just love that. So, her book has been really, really helpful. The second book that I found helpful and I've recommended it to women and they've read it and just felt it is an absolute jewel, and they were so glad that I recommended it, is How Women Rise. That book is by Sally Helgesen and Marshall Goldsmith. It talks about the 12 habits that hold us, hold women back. And last, something that I embraced, I went to a Pennsylvania conference for women and latched on to a message delivered by Reshma Saujani, she is the founder of Girls Who Code, author of the book Brave, Not Perfect, but 'Be brave, not perfect'. And that has allowed me to just start and try new things. Don't wait till everything is perfect and aligned. Just take a step. And that has been so huge for me in a career and in a business. You may not know exactly every step that you're going to take. You just have an outline, but don't put so much pressure on ourselves to just be absolutely perfect. Just take a step, then look at what worked and what didn't. And then take the next step. So, be brave, not perfect.

Jeremy Cline 36:26
I love that. A related quote I've heard is something like 'Done is better than perfect'. So, you know, just get something out there, you can refine it, you can come back to it later, it doesn't have to be perfect the first time. Valissa, this has been a great conversation. I've really loved hearing your story and such amazing tips. If people want to find you, get in touch with you, find out a bit more, where should they go?

Valissa Pierrelouis 36:48
Well, thank you so much, Jeremy. My website is one place www.standoutcareer.com. You can also follow me on LinkedIn, and that's my name, Valissa Pierrelouis. Also on Instagram @VelissaPierrelouis. And you can also find me as the moderator for a career circle in Get Fit and Functional For Life, and it's an online community where we really talk about mind, body, soul, and we know that the career and the personal life, they are interconnected. And so, I'm also there.

Jeremy Cline 37:29
What was the name of that community?

Valissa Pierrelouis 37:31
getfitandfunctionalforlife.com

Jeremy Cline 37:34
Excellent. I'll put links to that in the show notes. Valissa, thank you so much for coming on and for sharing your story. And best of luck going forward.

Valissa Pierrelouis 37:44
Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for what you do, Jeremy, thank you for the invite. Thank you so much. Keep doing what you're doing.

Jeremy Cline 37:52
Okay, I hope you enjoyed the interview with Valissa Pierrelouis of Standout Career Guide. You kind of like to think that if you're good at your job, and you're performing well, that you'll get recognised, that people will notice that. But from what Valissa was saying, that's just not the case. Valissa made it clear that visibility is absolutely key here. That question that she suggested asking people around you, what are you hearing about me, that's really powerful, and it gives you some great insights. It's a really uncomfortable question to ask, I get that. But I guess then you just go back to that question that comes up time and time again, well, what's the worst that can happen? There's a summary of everything we talked about, links to the resources that Valissa mentioned, and also to her website, and a full transcript of the interview, if you'd like to catch up on a part of it, they're all on the show notes page, which is at changeworklife.com/106. And I mentioned this last week, and I'll mention it again, but it would be great if you would share this episode and share the podcast generally. Valissa had some fantastic tips for what you can do if you want to achieve a promotion. And you'll recognise a few of the tips from Episode 60 with Stacy Mayer, when we talked about a similar subject. If you know anyone who just looks like they should be promoted, but they seem to be struggling with it, well, do please share with them this episode and Episode 60. There's loads of stuff there that's going to help them. And we've got another interview full of tips coming up next week. So, subscribe to the show if you're not already, and I can't wait to see you next week. Cheers. Bye.