Episode 86: How to establish yourself in a new career – with Nicole Tschierske of Into Action Coaching

Episode 86: How to establish yourself in a new career - with Nicole Tschierske of Into Action Coaching

Jeremy Cline 0:00
How do you establish yourself in your work? You know you're working somewhere where you enjoy being there. But you want to get better known, you want to advance, you want to be able to advocate for your own development and progression. That can be particularly challenging if you've moved somewhere entirely different, whether it's a new job or whether it's a new career. So, what steps can you take? That's what we talk about in this episode. I'm Jeremy Cline, and this is Change Work Life.

Jeremy Cline 0:40
Hello, and welcome to Change Work Life, where we're all about beating the Sunday evening blues and enjoying Mondays again. Now, it's all very well talking about changing career, but how do you go about establishing yourself in what might be an entirely new area for you? To help answer that question, I'm joined today by Nicole Tschierske. Nicole is a food chemist, change manager and founder of Into Action Coaching, through which she helps ambitious women in science and tech get noticed and get promoted. Nicole, welcome to the podcast.

Nicole Tschierske 1:09
Hi, Jeremy. Good to be here.

Jeremy Cline 1:11
Can you start by telling us a bit about the dual role you have at the moment? I gather coaching is one aspect of what you do but not the only aspect.

Nicole Tschierske 1:18
Yeah, exactly. So, I'm still part-time employed in a large international consumer goods company. And there, I work in the area of supply chain as a change manager and basically taking care of all the people's stuff related to business transformation. And, as you rightly said, there's another aspect in my life, which is running my own coaching practice where I help women in the STEM fields to really just build the expert reputation that they need and the influential communication skills to really have a bigger impact in their companies and for further aspirations.

Jeremy Cline 2:01
So, how did you get started in STEM yourself? I gather you're a food scientist by background, is that right?

Nicole Tschierske 2:08
Yeah, exactly. So, I studied food chemistry and as part of this education, I then also did my PhD in chemistry, but I already did it in the industry, in the cosmetics industry. And that is where I learned about the field of product innovation. And I really, really loved it. So, I always loved the applicational aspect of studying food chemistry. When you're in a lab and not making just some synthesis of molecules, but you're analysing yoghurt and bread and things like this, it just has real world application, which I really, really loved. And then, doing my PhD in the industry, researching something that was of great interest for the company and would help them deliver or develop better products, that was really, I just found it really exciting. And I really loved being on the forefront of innovation there in that department where I was in. And I really loved that aspect of creating something that makes somebody's life better. And then actually, whatever you develop and what you mix up in the lab ends up on a shelf is just so cool. And that is how I then also, I switched to another consumer goods company then, for my first, let's call it real job. But I also worked in product innovation for a while. And I never thought I would leave it until a crisis struck. So, as is often the case for when you're making a bit more drastic changes in your life.

Jeremy Cline 3:49
We'll come on to that. But before we get there, what does product innovation look like in the food context? And can you give us some examples of what you were working on?

Nicole Tschierske 3:59
Yeah. So, it can be as simple as having new flavourings for your yoghurt or for your whatever. It could also be establishing a completely new type of product, like what we've seen in recent years, having, for example, all of those meat alternatives or vegan products, like the different types of like an almond drink or coconut drink as a replacement for cow milk for those people who want it, or having all of these quote unquote fake meat or meat substitute products, so that required a lot of product development on the companies' sides. So, it can be a whole range, but it's always about looking into, how can we make products better in terms of the ingredients that we use, how can they be more high quality, but also what do the consumers need and want, where are the interests going? And then serving those needs, obviously.

Jeremy Cline 5:00
It sounds like quite a niche area, quite a specialised area. Were you conscious, as you went into it, that this was quite sort of specialised?

Nicole Tschierske 5:09
Oh, no. So, this is not, this was just examples. This wasn't, these weren't things that I specifically did. But just to illustrate that every big consumer goods company has some form of product development or product innovation department. So, really like, the Biosolves and L'Oréals of this world, and then if we want to look into food, the Unilevers and Nestlés and so on, they all have these kind of departments, where you basically look into, how can we fill the product pipeline with new and better products that better serve our consumers' needs? But then, even the smaller companies, that even if they don't have their own product development department, they often outsource that to third-party labs, for example, and would then say, 'Okay, hey, here we have, I don't know, this is our margarine and can you please make a bit more buttery flavour for that?' Sort of like this. And this is not just in the food industry, this is in every industry, as we know, these industries, they need to stay on their toes and just go with the changes and the changing requirements based on regulation, or just on the market demand or these kind of things.

Jeremy Cline 6:27
What did you think the career track was going to look like when you started?

Nicole Tschierske 6:32
Oh, yeah, I thought... So, I started my career and also did my PhD in big corporates. So, they had an established order that has worked a certain way for decades, it wasn't in a start-up environment, where you make it up as you go, and you grow as you go. But it's like everything established. And so, I could only imagine for myself what I was seeing in that moment. And that was a very conventional career path of like, you work in a lab as a technician and then maybe you have a senior technician role and maybe one day you become the lab manager, and then maybe one day you become the departmental manager. So, that very conservative, almost, or long-established career path that I just saw others pursuing. And it was even, my parents and my grandparents having had grown up in a way where, you know, you choose your profession at the age of 16 and you do that until you retire. So, that was the frame that I had in my mind. And then, when I started to get a bit more exposure to people who were even just five or seven years younger than I, and were maybe coming from a different country, like even only as different as the UK, if you want to say it like this, and they had a completely different approach. They seemed to have been brought up with a different expectation, where it's not choose one thing in your youth and then do that for the rest of your life. But just go out and test and see what you want to do. And at the beginning, I was like, 'Oh, the audacity to think that you have a technical or sciency background, and then you go and do something in HR, like, how does it even go together?' But the more examples I saw like this, the more became possible for myself in my own mind. So, that was really inspiring. But it took a while to open up and for me to seeing and even acknowledging there might be other things that I could be doing other than this conventional career path.

Jeremy Cline 8:40
You talked about having a work crisis. Can you tell me a bit more about that?

Nicole Tschierske 8:45
As it sometimes happens in big companies, there are mergers and acquisitions and so on. And then, when you have basically two parts coming together that were coming from previously different companies, and now they become one, but they address the similar things, in my case, it was the product innovation around a certain product group, and now they would have to, obviously, it would not be very cost-effective to have two teams doing the exact same thing. And in order to sort that out, it takes a lot of assessment and negotiations and just planning out strategies and all of that. And I can imagine from a senior leadership perspective, this is not easy to do, and you want to make the right call and you want to make the right decisions and put everything into a good order. However, those months, like at the bottom of the food chain, so to speak, where me and my colleagues were – how this played out was that for six months, all of our projects were stopped. One day we were hyped as the future of the company, next day they take everything away from us. Again, for good reason, probably, but then we had nothing to do. And we were all so engaged and motivated and driven and I really, really like working and feeling like I add value to where I work. And so, that was horrible, but it was still okay and okay to bear because I knew, okay, like in six months, or at some point they will make a decision and then I know where I will land and so on. And then everything will be good. And it was for a while. So, I switched into a new role, still the science role in that same company, because my innovation role was made redundant at the location where I worked. So, in this new science role, it also could have been really exciting, but then again, we didn't have as much projects coming through that we were tasked to work on. And so, this period of being a full-time employee, and only having 10% of my time something to do, it just dragged on for months and months and months. And basically, eventually, I developed a bore-out, so I was completely underchallenged. And I felt useless to the point where I was literally thinking, 'How can I give my money back that I get every month from? I haven't earned it, in the literal sense of the word.' And that also then started to take a toll on my private life, where anything that resembled a routine, I couldn't bear it anymore. And I was so low on energy. I did nothing all day and then at the end of the day, I could only lie on the couch. It was just horrible. And then, I just said to myself, 'Okay, this can't go on like this, I have to pull the emergency brake.' And then I looked for help from a coach to get me out of this and to get a new perspective. Because, I thought, I'm all out of options, because I had been sitting in my boss's office crying so many times and all I ever heard was, 'Yeah, we'll have to wait. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, okay, I will see.' But there was always like, yeah, let's wait, but I couldn't wait anymore. It's been a year and a half, kind of.

Jeremy Cline 12:10
This is really interesting, because occasionally, people look at this being paid to do nothing idea as a good thing. And, 'Yeah, so I'm employed, I'm getting paid, but I'm not actually doing any work'. So, it's interesting to hear you say that really it was not a good thing. It was affecting you, your mental health, your emotional wellbeing. You said that you had kind of 10% of the time where you were doing things, so what were you actually doing the other time? I mean, could you turn up to the office and basically, do what you like, go on Facebook all day if you wanted to? Or did you have to try and kind of make work for yourself?

Nicole Tschierske 12:54
Well, there's only so much you can do of making work for yourself. It's like how writing a monthly report was... Like, the small tasks that I did have, I would do them, but they were done so quickly. And then the rest of the time was really like, okay, what am I gonna do now? And again, it's not like I hid that, or I was like, okay, I hope nobody notices that I don't want to work. You know, I was approaching different people and so, I was trying to add value wherever I could. But without being, it was like now with all of the additional education that I have from around positive psychology and around systemic coaching and so on, I now can really see what happened there. It's just really, it's like, as humans, we have basic psychological needs and they are for autonomy, competence, and belonging. And if those needs are not met, we really get a huge dip in motivation and we don't feel like we're in a good place and it just feels really, really horrible. And so, basically, I didn't have my need for autonomy met, in the sense of, of course, I could go on YouTube and shop around on Amazon all day, but I could not, whenever I tried to come with a proposal – maybe I could do this, or maybe we could look into that project, or maybe I could do this – I was always met with a, 'No, somebody else is doing that.' So, in the work dimension, I didn't have my need for autonomy met, I definitely didn't have my need for competence met, where competence is all about seeing that what we do makes an impact and has an effect and we are shaping our lives, so to speak, actually. And I had no effect, like, anything I did. So, first of all, I had nothing to do, and then the things I did try, they led nowhere, and so there was... Yeah, and then, with those two not being met for so long, I then looked into belonging, and then you even start to feel like, 'Am I even still part of the team? Am I still a valuable part of this company? Do I still belong here?' And that was, yeah, I don't know, it just went downhill from there.

Jeremy Cline 15:12
Why approach this with getting coaching rather than, which a lot of people would have done, just change jobs, look for something else?

Nicole Tschierske 15:22
I started applying, obviously, for other jobs and other companies and so on. But at the same time, those types of challenges, we probably will not only meet them once in our lives. And so, I wanted to make sure that I used this as a learning opportunity to develop tools and strategies for myself to pull myself out of that hole the next time. Or even, learn to recognise it earlier, and then know what actions I can take to make it take a different course of action. So, I really didn't want to let that pass me by. And the last and biggest reason for me was really that I want to like my reasons for whenever I make a change, or when I take a decision. So, I really want to make sure I like my reasons. And my only reason being, I'm gonna go somewhere because I'm miserable here, is not a good enough reason, because then, you're always coming from a place of lack. And so, I wanted to make sure that I learned to want what I have and be happy there and have my energy back and have a good, almost forgiving, attitude towards whatever that situation was. And in that way, whatever new opportunity comes, you approach it with a completely different mindset and feeling, rather than just, 'Oh, as long as I get away from that.'

Jeremy Cline 16:50
You've talked about some really interesting concepts here, using it as a learning experience, not wanting just to run away, but actually to make conscious choices. But I'm sure that most people, they don't think in these terms, they do run away because they want to leave a particular pain point without necessarily thinking about what they're running to. And then, you get people in a situation where they end up job hopping. But I think that probably is the default for a lot of people. Where did all this come from? Was this something that you figured out for yourself, that just job hopping wasn't the right thing and that you needed coaching in order to make the most of this? Or had you had some guidance from somewhere else which led you to think, 'Actually, no, I'm not just going to change jobs, I'm going to look at this a bit more methodically and a bit more scientifically'?

Nicole Tschierske 17:42
Those words that I just shared with you, they probably weren't as articulate back then as they are now. Because obviously, in hindsight, I can explain it much better to me what I did and what I felt. For me, I knew coaching is a real option. I knew it's effective. I have heard of others, I had tried it before as a client myself. And when I found myself in this complete, deep, dark hole, almost, I knew I need – I didn't want anyone to, as a consultant, come in and tell me what to do. Because I want to make my own decisions. So, I needed someone to help me see things differently, to come up with my own solutions, to uncover all of my own faults and patterns that were keeping me stuck. And that is why I started to see a coach. And yeah, and it really worked, within four sessions. Not everything was peachy within four sessions, but I totally had my energy back, I started to make small changes to my daily life just to get out of this funk, out of this dragging feeling. And then, I also started to, with this energy coming back, I started to knock on a few more doors and involve a few more people and sharing with them my situation. Now I was not going up just to my manager and manager's level. But I was going up to the director level, I was engaging with HR and I was just being very, very open, saying, 'Hey, this is my situation. I really like working for this company. But I don't want to stay in the job because I have nothing to do. And it's just really, I don't think this is where I add the most value.' And with that, basically, more opportunities started to surface, but I didn't even... You see that it sounds so obvious now, but back then, it wasn't even an option for me, because I thought I would always only had to go through my boss. But then, with the help of that coach, I started to see those other ways and I just started to take different actions and different actions lead to different results.

Jeremy Cline 19:59
And how did this lead to pivoting into change management?

Nicole Tschierske 20:03
Yeah. So, basically, out of those conversations with HR, so they knew me since the few five years, that lady, actually, she hired me, so she knew who I was and what I had done in the meantime, and what my strengths are and all of that. And I basically told her, 'Okay, here I am, these are the things that I like doing, I have some time available, I have the permission from the director to try out something new, even if it's just part-time, if there's not a complete move available right now.' And she knew that in the area of supply chain, they had this continuous improvement, this big continuous improvement project going on, where they were looking to transform some processes within the supply chain. And I knew nothing about how a supply chain works. But understanding processes and doing continuous improvement, I basically started to receive all of the trainings then in lean, and that is how I learned to facilitate these kind of projects. And through the coaching, I also noticed, wait, what did he do to me? I want to be able to do that too. And so, on my own time, and I financed that with my own money, I started my coaching education, and that was just, I don't know, I just became obsessed with that type of work. And so, then one thing led to another, so I could, inside the company, I could do an internal part-time secondment. So, part of my time, I was still working in my old job for the few things that I had to do there. But then, the other part of my time, I could spend in another department, helping on this lean supply chain project. And that way, the managers in that area got to know me as a person, what kind of work I do, what I'm good at, what I'm interested in. And they knew they had this big transformation project coming up, where they would need someone to fulfil the role as a change manager. And I knew people stuff is what I really like doing. And I don't know, the stars just aligned, and that role opened up and they knew me from all that secondment work that I had been doing for them. And so, that is how I ended up where I am now.

Jeremy Cline 22:21
Well, you say that the stars aligned, but it sounds like you'd given a quick nudge in the right direction as well. What was the most challenging aspect of starting on the supply chain project, having come in from something which, presumably, yeah, it was in the same company, but it was completely different and with people that you hadn't worked with before?

Nicole Tschierske 22:47
The people part was quite easy, quite okay, because everyone was very welcoming and open and collaborative and willing to explain and all of that. The most challenging part for me was, when you study in a field and you do a PhD in your field, and you spend the first years of your career in a field, you really, really are an expert. And then as scientists, we're like, it's indoctrinated into our heads that we are the experts and we have the answers. And losing that, from one day to the other, where I don't have years of experience in change management, I have no clue about how a supply chain works. So, like, it's like having pulled the rug from underneath me. And now I have to figure out how to still add value and find my ways here without knowing anything. Maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration. I knew some things, obviously. But I would really have to build all of those or rely on all those other transferable skills, coaching and facilitation skills, like relying on having a quick mind to be able to understand enough and to just know who I have to ask and who I have to bring to the table to have the more detailed expert discussions. But yeah, that was really, probably for the first, and this might sound really, really long, but if you're starting from scratch, it was, and I didn't have the cockiness of my youth anymore, so to speak, it's probably the first one and a half years, I was just kind of trying to figure it out. And then, I had enough mistakes and errors and the first few successes under my belt, where I could say, 'Okay, now it looks like I'm having some experience.' Because you can take all the courses that you want, and you can read all the books that you want, but you can't Google experience. And that only comes with time and with just doing a number of things. And so, sitting in that uncomfortable feeling for long enough was really challenging.

Jeremy Cline 24:52
So, you've got this period of 18 months before which you start to feel like you know what you're doing, but presumably your employer remained happy with what you were doing during that time. So, how do you square that? How do you square your own feeling that you really didn't have a clue what you were doing, but your employer presumably not taking you to one side and saying, 'You really don't know what you're doing'?

Nicole Tschierske 25:16
I mean, obviously, my own internal measure was completely, I don't know, distorted, because I can't, when I start something completely new, when you're soccer player and then you start as a ballerina, you can't use the same measure of standard that you used for yourself as a soccer player to being as good as a ballerina. That is where probably the expectations that I had towards myself versus that my employer had towards myself were way off. Plus, I really tried to have as many learning and improving on the fly moments as possible, which means constantly checking in with my project manager, with our sponsor, with my boss, okay, what's working, what are we still missing, and then basically, tapping into the collective wisdom of the team to figure out okay, so in terms of the people aspects of change, what is working, what is not working and then yeah, basically, either looking up in the literature, or looking up what are best practices that are described online and seeing if I can exchange with other change practitioners, although there were like very, very few available, but it was really like tapping into the collective wisdom of the team and making sure we are step by step doing the right thing. And then, yeah, even though we couldn't see all the way through the next three years, but we would – month by month by month, we would add something new to our toolkit or drop what isn't working.

Jeremy Cline 26:55
Let's talk a bit about coaching. So, you said that you wanted to start coaching as a result of the experience you had. You'd had such a transformative experience that you thought, 'Hey, I want to do this for other people.' Can you talk a little bit about who you decided that you wanted to coach and what sorts of transformations you wanted to help people have?

Nicole Tschierske 27:18
Yeah, so this is also something that didn't come easy, because again, I have to do work in an area which I know nothing about, which is marketing, and positioning and all of these things. And so again, here, I looked for help. So, who are people who know about that, who can help me on that thought process? And so, I looked for business coaches and mentors who could help me tease that out. And basically, I mean, obviously, coaching is so valuable, and the tools you can use with an accountant, with a woman in science, with a lawyer, with just anyone. However, where I felt the most resonance for myself, where I could relate the most to, was really those women in science, because also, even in my sciency roles at the beginning, I had exactly those struggles at the beginning that my clients that I work with now are having. For example, how do I share my ideas? How do I speak to other people in the company who do not have a science background or maybe have a science background, but now have completely different tasks because they're on a higher management level? But how do I communicate with them in a way that they really understand what I'm saying and action follows? And how do I make myself visible? And how do I show the value that I bring? And there were a few moments where others were chosen over me simply because they had 10 years on me, or because they were a man and not a woman. And then, when I looked at what they produced on the, I don't know, one and a half times my salary or something like that, compared to what I produce in terms of value for the company, it was the exact same thing, it's like, how's that even happening? Or, what can I do about this? And I noticed that I stood in my own way in so many different forms. And so, that is why I can really relate to my clients now. And plus, it's really fun. It's like, once these women decide, 'Okay, now I'm going to make a change', they're really all in. They go out of their comfort zone, they are really willing to learn and apply. And with that, also the results they achieve are amazing. And so, I get to watch this transformation that they make for themselves. And it's just, I don't know, it's just really fun.

Jeremy Cline 29:47
What specific sort of transformations are you aiming for with your clients?

Nicole Tschierske 29:52
Yeah, so it's really creating visibility for themselves within the company, but in a non-sleazy way, and in a way that feels really genuine for them. And so, basically, it's not about just going around, quote unquote bragging. But actually, by showing up, by doing your work in a way that is super customer-focused – and with that, customers are also internal people, other stakeholders that you work with – by communicating properly, by owning who you are and what you can do and speaking about yourself in a way that shows confidence and conviction, and you really have that presence and from that space, you're just much more engaged and motivated and with that, you do a much better work, people like working with you more, and then, the results that I see them achieve is just, within four months of like... My most recent client who just graduated, so to speak, from our working time together, within four months, from being completely disengaged, and like, 'What am I even doing here?', going to really loving her job, really being strategic about how she wants to position herself to get to the next level, and then hearing, from other places, how more and more senior managers positively speak about her when she's not in the room. So, she really starts to build that reputation and that recognition. And so, now, as in her company, things are moving and shifting, because there's always some sort of restructuring, strategy change and so on going on, she can really position herself for the role that she most wants.

Jeremy Cline 31:31
That's brilliant. I can see just how valuable that can be to a person. And it really resonates with a few previous guests who've talked about similar things. So, it's lovely to hear this. So, in terms of your future, do you see yourself continuing with this dual role where you're doing the change management in the corporate and doing the coaching on the side? Or do you see yourself going full-time coaching or full-time in the corporate? Or where do you see your future going?

Nicole Tschierske 32:03
For the foreseeable future, I do want to continue both, because I enjoy both. I can still see, it's not all peaches and creams, but it's neither in one nor in the other. So, you will always have things in your job or in your work, whatever you do, things that you don't like or that are stressful, or that are really challenging and annoying. But on the bottom line, for me, in my corporate job, I love the team that I'm working with, I have a really great boss, we have some new leaders in the business that really inspire hope, and this kind of looking forward to the future and for the changes that are to come. I still have so much to learn, and I've been given a lot of freedom to experiment and to try things. And so, as long as it's this much fun, and I have so much to learn still, it's like why would I leave? But again, then this coaching practice, because I have a lot of creative freedom in how I set this up, and what are the topics that I take on, who are the clients, private clients, but also institutions that I work with, and I can build a lot of giveback into this in terms of raising money for charities and these kind of things. So, there's just, again, it's just multiplying opportunities, and for the moment and with proper planning, so I don't get overworked and burnt out, both is possible. And that's why I guess I will continue this for the coming years.

Jeremy Cline 33:37
How aware are your employers of what you are doing on the side? Do they know, essentially, exactly what you do?

Nicole Tschierske 33:44
Yeah, so I'm in Germany, and the rule is that you will have to get consent if you want to have a second income stream through an own business. And so, it's all fair and square, I got that signature from HR that I'm officially allowed to do that. Of course, I can't work for any direct competitors. That's totally fine and logical. And other than that, again, I have a brilliant boss. And I remain flexible, so that I can be there for the company when it's necessary. But at the same time, because we track our hours, I also have the flexibility to be on my own business when I need to be. And both of them, it's almost symbiotic. So, a lot of what I develop for my private clients, what I learn for that part of my life and my business, I bring back into the company and I offer those trainings inside for free. And so, it's mutually beneficial for both of them. And I guess as long as I'm doing a good job, there's no problem with that.

Jeremy Cline 34:53
I was about to ask you about how much your employer is interested in you doing for them what you're doing on your own account. It's not just going to be beneficial for your clients, but it's potentially going to be beneficial for the company. If you take these existing employees who might be feeling a bit unmotivated, and you can coach them into performing better and generally being happier, I mean, surely that's something that any sensible employer would be biting your hand off to do.

Nicole Tschierske 35:27
Yeah, I intentionally keep it under the radar, a little bit, at least. So, I'm not like attaching it to any big HR programme or things like that. But I'm well connected within the company and enough people know what I do and what I offer. And so, there have been numerous teams that say, 'Okay, can we do a day of team coaching just to find our mission and vision?' Or, 'Can we do a little bit on how to deal with those negative emotions that we have sometimes during change?' Or, 'How do we cope better with stress? How do we refill our energy levels?' Or, 'How can we redesign our work life to prevent burnout and stay motivated and engaged?' And with those small little things here and there, I just offer sometimes, it's just a one-and-a-half-hour little workshop, which just gives people the new tools and the time to reflect. And, yeah, it's just here and there and it's good enough. And, of course, I can't let this take over. Because I still have the change management job to do.

Jeremy Cline 36:32
That's fascinating. Really, really interesting. As you've been on your journey, have there been any particular resources which have helped you or which you routinely recommend to clients, which you'd like to share?

Nicole Tschierske 36:45
Yeah, so this might feel like a bit of an unusual one. But one book, especially when you told me about your audience, and that they're sometimes mid-career and start to think like, 'What is this, do I even still enjoy this and what is coming next?' So, one book that really opened my eyes to the idea of maybe not having a life purpose, but life section purpose, something like that, and that it will all line up in the end, it's called A Dog's Purpose by Bruce Cameron. And I know there's a movie about this, I haven't seen the movie. I really recommend to read the book. I was laughing out loud. I was crying at times. But I closed down the book when I finished it and I had a whole new outlook on life and the things that happen to us and why for these five years, this is happening, and then the next five years, five to seven years, that is going on in my life. And so, I just, it's a great read, and for me, it provided so many insights and I was so much more content with how my life is going just because I read that book.

Jeremy Cline 37:59
And if people want to find out more about you and maybe get coached by you, where's the best place for them to get hold of you?

Nicole Tschierske 38:04
Yeah, I think the easiest way is to come find me on LinkedIn, just connect and say hello, that is my most favourite social media platform. And then, my website address is intoactioncoaching.de, but I'm sure you'll put that in the show notes as well.

Jeremy Cline 38:21
I certainly will. Yep.

Nicole Tschierske 38:22
Yeah, so people can find me there or email me. I'm nicole@intoactioncoaching.de and yeah, just happy to connect.

Jeremy Cline 38:30
Brilliant. Thank you so much. Well, Nicole, it's been really interesting hearing your story. I'm sure this is going to provide a lot of inspiration to other people. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Nicole Tschierske 38:40
Thanks for having me. I had great fun.

Jeremy Cline 38:42
Okay, what did you think about that? Hope you enjoyed that interview with Nicole Tschierske. One of the things I'm really enjoying about doing this podcast is the way that some similar themes come through with my different guests, but expressed in a different way. So, one of the things Nicole talked about was her need to lead herself, how she recognised that it wasn't just enough to change jobs, she actually needed to get a bit of a better understanding as to what she needed, which chimed pretty well with what Jamie Crosier was saying in Episode 62. Nicole recognised that she had to take control of her own career, which again was something that Chris Jones was talking about back in Episode 80. And when it comes to getting promoted and advancing at a company, what Nicole was saying resonated with what Stacy Mayer said back in Episode 60 about finding the advocates for yourself, making sure that you talk to the right people about what you're doing and getting yourself noticed.

Jeremy Cline 39:33
You'll find the show notes for this episode at changeworklife.com/86, that's changeworklife.com/86, where you'll find links to where you can find Nicole, the tools and resources that she mentioned, and there's also a summary of what we talked about and a full transcript if you want to go back and revisit anything. Whilst you're there, if you haven't already, make sure you subscribe to the show. You can find the links where you can do so at changeworklife.com/subscribe. Or if you're listening to this on a mobile device, just take that device out of your pocket and hit subscribe. You're not gonna want to miss some of the episodes that we've got coming up, especially next week where we're talking all about how you plan your career change. You've identified what you want to do, you know where you are now. But how do you get from A to B? How do you get from one to the other? That's what we're going to talk about next week. So, make sure you're subscribed to the show so you don't miss it. And I can't wait to see you then. Cheers. Bye.