Episode 147: Changing career and starting all over again – with Viviane Freitas

Giving up a job that you’ve worked hard to get is a scary prospect, especially if it means starting a new career at the bottom of the ladder, but this week’s guest did exactly that.

Viviane Freitas was a qualified architect before she realised that she had to change career for the sake of her happiness and mental well-being.  She explains how she found a career that was right for her, what first steps she took to transition into a new industry and how she overcame the fear of starting her career from scratch.

She talks about the problems working in the wrong career brings, how she knew it was time to make a change and how coaching helped her along her career-changing journey.

Today’s guest

Viviane Freitas

Instagram: Becoming Viviane

Viviane is a Marketing Assistant in a global law firm.  Prior to switching to marketing, she had a career in architecture until she felt completely lost and unfulfilled.  She is excited to share the ups, downs and the lessons she learned during her career change.

What you’ll learn in this episode

  • [4:32] Common responses friends and family make when they learn that you want to change your career.
  • [9:25] The problem with working in the wrong career.
  • [10:49] How to find the type of career that’s right for you.
  • [19:39] How to reach out to strangers to ask about careers you  might be interested in.
  • [21:33] What to ask professionals that are in industries you’re interested in working in.
  • [22:28] The first steps to breaking into a new industry.
  • [27:24] How to overcome the fear of starting your career from scratch.
  • [29:05] How a coach can help you both before and after you’re career change.
  • [37:46] What to do if you’re considering a career change but are worried about starting over.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Please note that some of these are affiliate links and we may get a small commission in the event that you make a purchase.  This helps us to cover our expenses and is at no additional cost to you.

Episode 147: Changing career and starting all over again - with Viviane Freitas

Jeremy Cline 0:00
You're in a prestigious job, you've worked hard to get where you are. You've had years of study, qualifications, exams. You're thinking about changing career, but why would you want to give all of that up? And what is it going to be like if you start again at the bottom rung of the ladder? Well, this week's guest did exactly that. I'm Jeremy Cline, and this is Change Work Life.

Jeremy Cline 0:37
Hello, and welcome to the Change Work Life podcast where we're all about beating the Sunday evening blues and enjoying Mondays again. If you want to know how you can enjoy a more satisfying and fulfilling working life, you're in the right place. And if you're listening to this on the day it comes out, Happy New Year. I hope 2023 is a great year for you. One of the biggest objections that you might have to change in career is having to start all over again. You've worked hard over a number of years to build up your skills and reputation in one area, and quite naturally, you're worried about going back down to the bottom rung of the ladder if you change to a completely different career. Well, today, we're going to hear from someone who has done just that. Viviane Freitas was an architect who went through a complete career pivot and started an apprenticeship in marketing. Viviane is also a former coaching client of mine, and I'm delighted to have her on the show to tell her story. Viviane, welcome to the podcast.

Viviane Freitas 1:34
Hi, Jeremy, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to tell my story and hopefully help some people and inspire them to do that change.

Jeremy Cline 1:42
I'm certain you will. Why don't you start by telling us a bit about what your job is now?

Viviane Freitas 1:47
Sure. So, at the moment, I am a marketing assistant for a global law firm. I assist them in creating and delivering global campaigns, also creating content, planning and organising events.

Jeremy Cline 2:01
And as I mentioned at the top, you started out as an architect. So, what was it that got you into architecture in the first place?

Viviane Freitas 2:08
Right. I was 17, just finished high school, didn't know anything about myself or about life in general. The only thing I knew I was good at was drawing. And then, I thought, well, architecture, drawing, that makes sense, that's the obvious choice, I'm going to go for that. And that's how it happened, Jeremy. And I started university, and I knew it wasn't for me, I never felt the passion. But then, I was already there, and I didn't know what else to do. So, I was, I'm going to get along with this, I'm going to finish this degree, and then, I'll figure out what to do. And it was a five-year course, so a very hard course, it's a lot of effort, it's a lot of time invested, money, so when you are in the middle of that, you don't want to give up. And I'm one of those persons that, if I start something, I'll finish it. And that's exactly what happened. Six years later, I had a degree, and I still wasn't passionate for what I was doing. Or I was an adult at that point, had bills to pay, I had ambitions for myself, for my career. So, I just carry on for a long time.

Jeremy Cline 3:31
Did that strike you as being kind of normal? So, were you of the mindset that you thought, 'Oh, well, this is something which I'm not particularly passionate about, but it's a good career, and well, that's okay, because no one really likes their job, I'll just do something because I'm good at, and yeah, just acknowledge the fact that it's not something that I'm necessarily particularly passionate about'?

Viviane Freitas 3:58
Exactly that. Because I didn't have a plan B, because I didn't have any passion or hobbies, that felt normal. Well, this is life. I'll have a degree, it's a very good course, it could open many doors. And just to clarify, it was architecture and urban planning, so I felt like I had two options there. And I quite enjoyed the urban planning side of things, more than architecture itself, it was a little bit of comforting. In the end, it just didn't work out for me. And that was sad somehow, because I really wanted it to work out. Everyone wants to be happy, everyone wants to do something that they enjoy. And I did, meaning work experience at that time, I was like, I need to find the right place for me, maybe just the right office, maybe just the right team. And I kept going, looking for that right place. And I couldn't find it.

Jeremy Cline 5:04
So, that sounds like it was that that led you to conclude that it wasn't the place you were working that was the problem, but it was what you were doing, the career as a whole.

Viviane Freitas 5:15
Exactly. And there was the story of my life for many years. And I don't know if we're going to talk about that now, but once I said out loud, 'This is not for me', the first thing my friends, family, they would say, 'Just change the company, just apply for another job, just take a vacation, you might be tired, you're so good at this, you can't give it up.' But I would try to find another job, I didn't apply for architecture jobs, but I would read the job description, and it was exactly what I used to do, so what was the point? I realised that it wasn't the company, and it wasn't me as well, because at some point, I was blaming myself. Well, maybe I'm not good enough, maybe I did something wrong. And it's hard. And at the end, I realised it wasn't me, it was just the wrong choice at the time. I was 17, how can I blame myself for something that happened years ago when I was a teenager?

Jeremy Cline 6:28
That's really interesting, this idea of blaming yourself, and you're quite right. I mean, when you're 17, who knows anything about anything at that stage? It's a big world out there, and you haven't really had much exposure to it, and you're making a decision when you choose your degree, which could lead on you to your career. Did you have other people who you were at university with at the same time, who have had a similar realisation? Maybe they kind of blamed themselves for what they've chosen and are now realising that it was simply that they didn't really know what they were choosing at the time.

Viviane Freitas 7:08
Yes, Jeremy, it happens a lot. I think, especially now that we're getting around 30s, and you really evaluate your life, what you want to achieve, what you have achieved, and I have so many friends, once I came open and said architecture is not for me, I'm going to do a career change, I got so much support from these people saying, 'We are here for you, you're going to be fine, and please let us know how you did it, because I'm also interested.' So many people that graduated with me, they are not in the area anymore, maybe they opened a business, maybe they're just working something completely different, but still figuring out what to do next. And it's so important when you have someone next to you, someone from your bubble, that knows they struggled, that knows how hard the course was, and how much it meant for us to leave that on the side and start something new, it's scary. And I talk with friends on a daily basis, I'm much happier now, this is how I did it, this is what you could do, and then I recommend them loads of movies, books and small things like that, because it took me two years, Jeremy to do my career transition, it wasn't a month, it wasn't a week, I would like to make people aware that it's going to take you time. And it's fine, because it's a transformation, you won't be ready in a month. You change from the inside out. It's not just changing industries, you change a lot of things about yourself.

Jeremy Cline 8:52
And the important point there, which you just mentioned, is that there's no hurry. The only person who is keeping score really is you. And yes, you might be in a position where you're kind of sick of what you're doing, and you just want out. But if you take your time over the transition, yes, continually moving forward, not just sitting and not doing anything, but yes, if you take your time, that's fine, that's okay. You take as long as you need.

Viviane Freitas 9:23
Yeah, it's difficult when you are in that situation. Because I got to a point Jeremy, I would arrive on a Friday evening, and I would just cry. I just couldn't cope with the pressure. And then, on a Saturday, my friends would meet up and do something, and I didn't want to go, because I didn't want to talk about work. You know, it's a natural conversation, how is work going, what do you do, I didn't want to meet new people, I didn't want to talk about my job, my career at all. It was something that I was like, I'm done with this, I don't have the energy, I don't have the motivation. And I was depressed at some point. So, I started doing therapy to understand more about what was happening, and that helped me to make the decision, this is the right thing for me to do, I need to find a solution for my problem, because this is my life we're talking about. I know that my family said, 'Oh, you're going to be fine, you just need a vacation', but that wasn't the case. So, I had to find the courage and say, 'Right, I'm doing this. How do I start?'

Jeremy Cline 10:34
Which leads me on to my next question. So, you were pretty confident that architecture wasn't for you, and that you needed to do something different. At that stage, did you have any idea what that something else might be?

Viviane Freitas 10:49
I had zero idea. And that's so overwhelming, because you think over and over again, where do I start, what can I do, what am I good at? So, at that point, I wasn't using social media for almost a year, just because I didn't want to compare myself to others. I didn't want to see how happy people were in their work life and how miserable I was. So, after that year, and after realising I had to do something for me, I decided to come back to social media, just as a research. Because as we mentioned, when I was 17, there wasn't the internet that we have today, there weren't all of these tools and amazing people talking about anything you can think of. So, I found your podcasts on LinkedIn. And then, it was a sense of community, there were more people like me, there were professionals talking about it, loads of coaching, giving their advice, giving some resource that you could look at. So, that was one of the first thing I came across. And I was like, okay, this is promising, there are so many routes that I could say. That's when I started reading books, that's when I started embodying the whole career change and knowing that it was possible. And on Instagram, I came across career coaching Joana Orvalho. And at that point, she was running a career challenge on Facebook. So, it was online and free. So, why not? I decided to do that. I can't remember how many women, it was specifically for women, I can't remember now how many of us, but there was this group of women from all over the world with this same problem. For the first time, Jeremy, I felt that I wasn't crazy, I wasn't alone, it all made sense. There were more people on the same boat. So, the challenge worked in this way, she would give us an exercise during the morning, and you would have the whole day to reflect on that. That would include your values, what was important for you, what you were like as a child, what would your dream job be, all this kind of stuff. And at the end of the day, she would run a live, and we would have the opportunity to speak with each other, to ask her questions about career change, and that helped me a lot in terms of, okay, I'm not the only one, I'm going to do this, and this is going to be fine. At the end of that week, she would choose a person to win session with her. And I won that. And it was so good to have that one-to-one time to discuss my career. Because that's the thing about career coaching. It's about you. It's not like a plan fits all. It's about what you want for your career, it's what you are good at, what your fears are. So, it was very good to draw that plan with her, and after that free session, I decided to pay for other sessions, because I really saw the results coming. I felt confident. At that point, I wasn't sure about marketing, let's make that clear, but one of the advice she gave was, you need to talk with people. You need to know what other people do outside your bubble, because all of my friends were from architecture. So, that's all I knew, Jeremy. And it's hard to think outside of the box when all you know is architects, architects. So, I decided to talk with friends of friends and from people that I knew, because I wasn't confident at that point to speak with strangers about it. And one of the first person I spoke with was a flatmate of mine. He happens to be a marketing manager. And I was like, okay, what do you do on your job, why does it make you happy. And all this is more talks that really gave me an insight about the industry. And then, I started talking with other people as well. When you analyse your values, what you want for your career and what I liked about architecture, I realised that I would like to be in a creative industry, I would like to do loads of things at the same time, I love multitasking, that was important for me. And I like work in teams. So, all of that along the month almost like clicked one day, like marketing is a real possibility. It seems interesting. But I didn't take everything he told me as absolutely true. I wanted to hear from other people. So, I started speaking with people from marketing, specifically, from other companies, other industries. And it felt right. Of course, I consider all the paths, I consider fashion, because creative, multitasking, teamwork. And I remember going on YouTube, there are loads of people that do this kind of video called a day in a life of X, whatever you want to do, there will be somebody on YouTube, recording their day-to-day, every single hour of their day. And that gives you a realistic view of what might be waiting for you. And that was really helpful as well. Besides talking with friends and real people, I was just on YouTube, researching all of this. And it really helped me. So, that's when I thought marketing sounds really good. I was sure that it was aligned with what I wanted to do. I didn't have any guarantee that would be the perfect industry for me, and at that point, I was fine with that. I was like, okay, I don't need to get this 100% right. If I learn anything on the way, that's progress, I'm happy with that. And if I make the wrong choice again, well, so be it, I'll be a step closer to doing the right choice. It wasn't easy, Jeremy, it wasn't, because as you said at the beginning, I had a career in architecture, I had experience. Just one other thing I would like to mention, because that was also one of the things that made me realise that architecture wasn't for me. When I moved to the UK, I was fully qualified in Brazil, I realised I would have to go back to Uni and do what they call Part 3. So, to be fully qualified in the UK, you need to do a Part 3. That would mean I would have to go back to Uni and do a year of architecture. And I didn't want to do that, Jeremy. I could work as an architectural designer and architectural assistant, but to be architect and to want more and to progress in my career, I would have to do that year course. And I just realised that, if I had to go back to Uni, I would rather study something else. At that point, I was just sick and tired. I studied architecture for six years, and I wasn't happy with it, so I didn't want to go back to Uni. And that's when I was like, okay, if I don't want to invest in this career, it means it's not for me, let's move on.

Jeremy Cline 19:03
I'd like to go back to the conversations that you had with people. So, you mentioned that you started with friends of friends, and then you reached out to people doing things that you wanted to do or that sounded interesting to you, in companies that sounded interesting. How did you reach out to them? So, what did you use? Was it LinkedIn, direct emails, that kind of thing? And what was your sort of opening thing, how did you communicate to these people out of the blue?

Viviane Freitas 19:36
Yes. That's a great question, Jeremy, and actually, I learned that from your podcast. I still remember, I think it was Austin...

Jeremy Cline 19:46
Austin Belcak, Episode 8, I think, yeah.

Viviane Freitas 19:49
Oh, I don't know, but in one of these episodes, they pretty much gave us a line. And I have a career change diary, where I would make all of the notes and everything that I would learn along the way, and it's here with me. And he gave an idea of how to approach strangers. And it was pretty much like, 'Hi, I've seen that you work in this industry for X amount of time, your career is really inspiring. I'm thinking of making this change, would it be okay to have a 5-10 minute chat or a coffee to talk about it?' And that's what I used. And it works, Jeremy, because ultimately, people are happy to help. And it is scary first time to do it, but the more you do, the more natural it becomes, and it works.

Jeremy Cline 20:45
What was your hit rate like? How many people replied, how many people ignored you? How many people said, 'Yeah, sure'?

Viviane Freitas 20:51
Of course, I was very strategic about it. I wanted people that worked in marketing. And we have some different backgrounds, like no degree in marketing, and I think out of that strategy, I spoke with like three people that gave me valuable advice. It wasn't something like, oh, yeah, okay, I could read that anywhere else. It was something that helped me. And some of these people, I still talk to this day. So, it's a real connection. It's like networking. And that's so important.

Jeremy Cline 21:31
And how did you know what to ask them?

Viviane Freitas 21:34
I really wanted to make sure that it was the right industry for me. So, I would focus on what kind of systems and programmes do you use, what kind of strategy does it involve, what kind of activities, if you could give someone advice, someone that is just getting into that industry, what advice you would give, how can I be very good at my job, it was more these kinds of questions.

Jeremy Cline 22:04
So, you did all this work, and you concluded that marketing was the thing that you wanted to have a go at. And you said it might not be 100% perfect, but you were reasonably sure that it was this thing that you wanted to do. Okay, so having made that decision, what then are the next one or two steps that you had to take?

Viviane Freitas 22:28
The first thing was to adapt my CV, because I had an architecture CV. And I had to identify which skills I could apply into marketing. That was the first step. And I knew I had it, Jeremy, I was creative, I could work under pressure, I used to work hard. So, somehow I was prepared. I knew I could handle the next challenge. I knew I could handle a job in marketing, because I was well prepared in terms of, I knew what they would be doing on their day-to-day life. It wasn't a surprise. So, I started to do some courses, because a friend of mine gave me a really nice advice, she said, 'Find a course that covers the basic and the boring of marketing. And if you like the boring, you will be prepared for anything else.' So I went into HubSpot and Udemy and Domestika, all of these learning platforms. Some of them are for free, some of them you have to pay, but it's something that anyone could afford, it's like 15 pounds for a course. So, I started doing these courses to gain the vocabulary, to have something on my CV, to say I'm very interested, I'm very committed, I'm putting an effort to learn about this industry, and that's why I deserve an opportunity. So, I was doing all these courses, I started speaking with recruiters, and then, they were telling me things like, 'Oh, you would be great if you had a CIM qualification, that would make you stand out.' And I was like, okay, I don't have a CIM qualification, so I started researching that. And I could do that while still working in architecture. I think it would cost like 2000 pounds, and then I would have to study at the weekends, let's say. And I was prepared to do that. But I was just so desperate to leave architecture. So, I wanted to make sure I got an experience besides the theory. Because you know, you could do a million courses, but until you do the job, you don't know how it is. So, from that, I realised I wanted to do a job that would allow me to study, because I felt I needed that theory, and I also needed the experience, like hands-on. And that's when I came across apprenticeships. Because in a nutshell, it's exactly what it is, the company and the government, it's a whole scheme, so you have the opportunities to study and work. That was the thing for me, and I knew that I would be sure if I love it or if I hate it at the end. And that's why I decided to do the apprenticeship. But at the same time, it wasn't an easy decision, Jeremy, because I had down, how do you say, a down pay?

Jeremy Cline 25:45
Yes, like a drop in salary.

Viviane Freitas 25:48
Yeah, so that wasn't easy, Jeremy, because I had to drop my salary, I had to start again, and it was sad in a way, because, my God, what am I going to do, I'm almost 30, and I will have to start again from the bottom. It was such a hard decision. But I felt it was the right decision, the right thing to do, Jeremy. So, I started applying for these apprenticeship schemes. And I got one eventually, and I was really happy with it, because I had a very clear image of what I wanted. I wanted to work for a big company, I wanted to work for a big marketing team, I didn't want to be the only person in marketing, who would I learn from? I wanted to learn from people, I wanted to develop a networking. And that's why I found the perfect job for me. And I was really happy when I got it.

Jeremy Cline 26:51
Talk a little bit more about how you worked through the fears and doubts that you had. I mean, going from a prestigious career as an architect, I'm assuming reasonably well paid, yes, okay, something that you didn't enjoy, but then going to an apprenticeship, which is something that traditionally people would do out of school, yeah, talk us through a bit more detail how you kind of got through the fears and doubts and uncertainties that you had around that.

Viviane Freitas 27:24
Right. So, I saw the apprenticeship as an opportunity to know if marketing was for me. So, the whole programme would be, some of them are one year, some of them two years, but I gave myself a year to make sure it was the right decision. And although I was earning less, I knew I would learn a lot from it. And that's the thing. You can't put a price on an opportunity like that. People are willing to teach you, you would have the opportunity to work for a top 10 law firm. And money wasn't an issue anymore, Jeremy, because as I mentioned, I didn't want to do anything, I didn't want to leave the house, I didn't want to meet people, I didn't want to talk with my friends. So, at that point, money wasn't a priority. I wanted to enjoy what I was doing. And I knew the apprenticeship would give me that opportunity. And that's what helped me to overcome all of those fears and insecurities of starting again.

Jeremy Cline 28:38
When we first started to work together, you were already pretty well into your apprenticeship. And I remember thinking when you first got in touch to say that you were interested in coaching, I was kind of thinking, hang on, you've already been through your career change, what do you want from me? So, can you talk a bit about what it is that you were looking for at that point, and what you were looking to get out of coaching with me?

Viviane Freitas 29:05
So, I got my dream job. I got the first job in the industry, which is the hardest thing to do. Because it's that old story do you need experience to get a job, you need a job to get experience. And that was my biggest issue. And then, I started my apprenticeship, and I was really, really happy with it. For the first time in my life, Jeremy, I had that sense of, I finally enjoy what I do. And this is so nice. I was like a completely different person. I was just so happy and so excited with my future in that industry. But I didn't have a plan. So, I've achieved everything I planned prior my career change, and now, that was done, and I wanted to make the most out of that opportunity. In my head, I had one year to be the best professional I could be, to progress quick, to learn everything I could. And there was an overwhelming feeling. I realised that I needed help to draw that plan, to plan my five-year career, what I would do next, or how could I meet people that would help me in that path. So, that was the reason that I said to myself, 'I need help.' And at that point, I would know you through the podcasts, and it was almost like I knew you. That's a funny thing to say, but I just felt confident that you also knew the industry I was in, which was a law firm, you are a lawyer yourself, so I felt confident that you would be able to help me being the best I could at that job. And we started talking about my values again, because a lot of things have changed. I needed to understand what was important for me at that moment. Because again, my goals weren't the same of a year ago. Now, I was already there. How could I progress from that role? So, we talked about values, we talked about strengths, weaknesses, it's very important to know what you're good at and what you are interested in, so you could be even better at your job. We talked about that, we talked about how important it is to build a networking of people. Again, I have done that in the past, but now, I was in the industry. Now, I wanted to know how do I progress, it's not how I get into that, how can I be the best at it. So, we talked about that, and that really helped me as well to be in contact with nice people from the industry, to learn from them, to almost expand my mind somehow, and to learn from people. Because that's important to me as well. We talked about future, where do I see myself in two, five years. I think those were the main things, but also gaining confidence, because at some point in this process, I said to myself, I don't know anything about marketing, so I know nothing, I'm nobody in this industry. And I almost forgot all of my baggage, all of my experience from architecture. I learned a lot, I used to work really hard in architecture, you need to know how to find solutions for any problem, let's put it that way. And I could apply that into marketing. And I just noticed that, okay, maybe I'm not starting from zero, maybe I can use all these skills and apply to this job, and feel good about it, feel proud about my background. And at the end of our coaching sessions, that's how I felt. I felt confident, I got this. I'm doing really well, I know what I'm doing, and I know what I have to do to achieve things that I want.

Jeremy Cline 33:29
And so, would you say that there's been tangible results? What have you seen that's kind of actually been different, that you can point to, to say, 'Yeah, this has been different'?

Viviane Freitas 33:38
Absolutely. And that's the beauty of coaching for me, Jeremy. It's actionable and realistic steps. It's not like a magical theory, and you're not going to give me the solutions for all of my problems. And I think it's important for us to say that you can't help me if I don't put the effort, if I'm not willing to learn from you, to think about my actions, to think about my fears, to be honest with you, to be open. So, I think it's a two-way job, I have to help you, for you to be able to help me. And I just felt so comfortable with you in telling everything I was thinking, everything I was fearing. And I think that is what made the difference as well.

Jeremy Cline 34:36
I have to say from my perspective, you're quite right. I mean, you were a model client. You were fully engaged, willing to be open about the things, you recognised that the time we had together, it was space for you, our sessions were all about you, it was a container for you, and you could literally bring along anything that you wanted. So, from that perspective, it was absolutely brilliant working with you. I mean, I loved it from my perspective, and it's good to know that, yeah, it's good to know that it helps.

Viviane Freitas 35:10
Thank you, Jeremy, I really appreciate it. Yes, as I said, it really helped me, because it was realistic things that I could do on my day-to-day. I didn't have to come up with something extraordinary. It was like, okay, I can do this, you start small, and you build that confidence, next time, it's easier. For example, for me, it's a real challenge to say no to people. And we worked on that. And it's still not easy, but I have the tools now to, okay, how am I going to do this, I can't do all of these right now, I have to say no to someone or to some things. And it really helped me with small things, with big things, and as I said, I'm confident now.

Jeremy Cline 36:02
So, you talked about two-year plans, five-year plans, that kind of thing. What do you see as being in your future now?

Viviane Freitas 36:11
I have to say that I'm so happy with marketing, Jeremy. And when I was in architecture, I couldn't picture myself in five years' time in that industry. I couldn't. And now, I can picture myself in 10 years' time. Which is great, which is like a relief, it's almost like I'm doing the right thing, I'm on the right path. And, you know, marketing is a very broad industry, and right now, I still like everything. So, for me, I'm trying to find that specialism, that thing that I love the most, and I could be the best at it. So, right now, I'm still enjoying the experience, I'm still enjoying, okay, I like what I do, and I'm not in a rush. And I truly believe that it will come to me naturally. This is what I want to do. But the most important thing is, I'm happy now. I'm happy now, and I know where I want to get, and of course, it's still a challenge, it's not easy to plan your career, but I'm confident that I will achieve those roles that I dream off.

Jeremy Cline 37:36
And so, having been through the process yourself, what would you say to someone who's thinking about changing career, but they're worried about starting out all over again?

Viviane Freitas 37:46
It was the best thing I've done for myself. And if I could go back in time, I would do exactly the same, Jeremy. And you know, when I was hearing other voices, I mean, when I was hearing family saying, 'Oh, but you're so good at it, oh, you're going to give up on your career and your studies and everything like that', they didn't know what was best for me. You know deep down what is the best for you. And during these two years of career change, I have learned how to listen to my intuition. Because only you know what happens on a Friday night when you're crying after work. Only you know when you lay down on a Sunday evening, and you wish you wouldn't wake up, just because you don't want to go to that job, you don't want to do that role. And it's cruel, Jeremy, it's hard. You know what is best for you, and it will come to you naturally. If you put the effort, if you do your research, if you talk about it, don't be ashamed of telling, 'I'm not happy where I am. What do you do? What do you think I could do?' Just be open and willing to learn and to try new things.

Jeremy Cline 38:16
You've mentioned that you had coaching a couple of times now. And you also mentioned a few books and other things that helped you. Could you point to any specifically, which you found particularly useful?

Viviane Freitas 39:29
Sure. So, one of the first books I came across during this whole process was What Color is Your Parachute? And that's nothing to do with marketing, it's more to do about what are the right things for you, what is important for you, what would you enjoy doing. And that really opened my mind to try new things and to explore my own feelings, let's put it that away. And also, as I mentioned, HubSpot, Udemy, Domestika, all these platforms, they have amazing resources, that if you have a rough idea, like I would be interested in engineering, just do more research and do like a short course, just to know if that's something you're interested in. And lastly, I would say, well, I would repeat, that YouTube is also an amazing research tool. If you want to know about any career, any paths, just search there, a day in a life of an engineer, that will give you amazing ideas as well.

Jeremy Cline 40:43
And if people want to get hold of you, I know you've talked a bit about your career change on Instagram, if someone wants to find you, what's the best place they can find you?

Viviane Freitas 40:53
Yeah, sure. So, I'm on Instagram, and it's called becomingviviane, it's a weird name, it was inspired by Michelle Obama, when she wrote that book, Becoming Michelle Obama. And it was more about becoming the best person I could be. And it was all about embracing these new changes, these challenges, and this new career. I give some career advice, not that I'm professional at it, but sometimes I just tell people what I'm reading, what I'm listening to, and yeah, feel free to follow me, and I hope that will be useful somehow. I'm also on LinkedIn. I don't post a lot there, but feel free to get in contact with me, to ask any questions about my career change, or if I could help anyone in any way, I would be happy to.

Jeremy Cline 41:45
Brilliant. As always, there'll be links in the show notes. Viviane, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you about your change of career. I think it was as an inspirational story. Best of luck for the future, and thanks so much for coming on the show.

Viviane Freitas 41:58
Jeremy, thank you so much for having me. It was a great chat. I'm really happy with it.

Jeremy Cline 42:03
Okay, hope you enjoyed that interview with Viviane Freitas. As you'd expect, I got to find out a bit about Viviane as I was coaching her. But as I mentioned in the interview, it was after her change of career that she and I started working together. And this was the first time I'd really heard the story about how she made that pivot from architecture to marketing. And I don't know about you, but I was pretty blown away by her story. She realised that architecture was making her miserable and decided that she was going to do something about it, even if, at that point, she didn't know what that was going to be. She started doing the work on herself to uncover what a change might look like for her, what her values were, what her strengths were, and all that kind of thing. She did the networking to find out what different careers were like. And I loved the idea of using YouTube to find people and their videos about a day in the life of being a, insert your choice of career here. I actually didn't realise that those videos existed, so it's a great string to add to the bow when it comes to research of what different careers look like. For me, Viviane is an almost perfect case study of what a career change can look like. It's not easy, there's work involved, but when you know that it's going to lead you to a better place, you're prepared to put the work in. And all of that was before Viviane and I started to work together. And I really appreciated her describing how the journey didn't end with that change when she had finished with one career and started with another. Having made the change, Viviane knew that she wanted to get some support in making her chosen new career as much a success as she could. And that's when we started working together. Viviane said to me before we started recording that, if she could inspire just one person to start taking action to help them enjoy their career more, then that would be enough for her. Well, if she has only inspired just one person, I will be very surprised. I hope she's inspired you, and I hope that she's inspired lots of people out there. Now, there's no taking away from the fact that Viviane has got to take credit for most of what she did. But just sometimes you need a bit of help figuring out what action to take. It was genuinely a privilege to work with Viviane and to help her as she started her new career. And I'd love to help you, too. If you're in the position where your job is making you unhappy, but you just don't know what it is that you could change to, or maybe you've already changed jobs, and like Viviane, you want some help making it a success, I'd love to see how I can help. You can find out more about the coaching I offer at changeworklife.com/coaching, that's changeworklife.com/coaching. And if you'd like a free introductory 30-minute conversation with me, then there's a form there where you can book that in. There's so much uncertainty, financially, economically, geopolitically, as we start 2023, that there really hasn't been a better time to focus on those things that you can control. And if you would like to take action, and you think that I might be able to help you with that, then get in touch, go to changeworklife.com/coaching. We've got another great episode coming up in two weeks' time. It's not just a normal interview, but you get to listen to me being a guinea pig for my guests' exercises. It was certainly interesting for me, and I think it is going to be really helpful for you. So, make sure that you have subscribed to the show if you haven't already, and I can't wait to see you then. Cheers. Bye.

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