Episode 101: A career as a thought-leader – with Elinor Moshe of The Construction Coach

Elinor Moshe explains what it means to be a thought-leader, how you can become one and what a career as a thought-leader looks like.

Today’s guest

Elinor Moshe of The Construction Coach

Website: Elinor Moshe

LinkedIn: Elinor Moshe

Instagram: @elinormoshe_

Twitter: @MosheElinor

Elinor Moshe is an ambitious and driven thought leader and dedicated mentor in the construction industry.  Her passion to guide, inspire and direct future leaders and industry professionals to construct their careers led to her founding Australia’s first construction coach, The Construction Coach.

Elinor is also the host of the successful podcast, Constructing You where she interviews exemplary leaders and industry titans who dominate the industry.  A number one best-selling author, Elinor’s book Constructing Your Career is one of its kind, for people who want inspirational, practical action and unconventional career intelligence to construct their career.

Elinor has been featured in Yahoo! Finance, Australian National Construction Review, Property Council of Australia’s Top 500 Women in Property programme in 2019, Top 100 Women in Construction, and is frequently a speaker, guest lecturer, and panellist.  She has been interviewed on over thirty global podcasts for her distinguished career and business insights. She holds a Master of Construction Management and Bachelor of Environments from the University of Melbourne.

What you’ll learn in this episode

  • [01:32] Elinor explains what The Construction Coach is.
  • [02:57] Elinor walks through how she became involved in the construction industry.
  • [04:12] Identifying the need for a coach within the construction industry.
  • [06:52] Understanding that there are more options than just one career path.
  • [08:20] Defining a ‘thought-leader’.
  • [11:07] Discussing the drivers to becoming a thought-leader.
  • [14:14] What qualities do you need to become a thought-leader.
  • [17:17] How to know when you have an idea that will resonate with an audience.
  • [18:46] How to monitor and assess your progress.
  • [21:36] Correctly setting your expectations to be in line with seeing results.
  • [22:37] Adapting your content over time to suit your audience.
  • [24:29] Creating the business plan behind becoming a thought-leader.
  • [26:40] How to use your content to create income streams.
  • [28:35] Spending time on your brand to see what resonates with people before launching a podcast, a programme or a book.
  • [30:31] Taking risks to further your authority positioning.
  • [33:39] Questioning yourself and reflecting on your values to get started in becoming a thought-leader.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Please note that some of these are affiliate links and we may get a small commission in the event that you make a purchase.  This helps us to cover our expenses and is at no additional cost to you.

To see the resources recommended by all our guests, visit the Resources page.

Episode 101: A career as a thought-leader - with Elinor Moshe of The Construction Coach

Jeremy Cline 0:00
Yes, you enjoy your job. But there's more than that. You can see things which can be improved. You can see things which people are struggling with, which you know you can help them with. You're passionate about making things better in your own particular area. How can you express that? How can you use that passion to help other people? That's what we talk about in this episode. I'm Jeremy Cline, and this is Change Work Life.

Jeremy Cline 0:37
Hello, and welcome to Change Work Life, where we're all about beating the Sunday evening blues and enjoying Mondays again. Today's episode is for those of you who have got something to say, you've got a subject which you know a lot about, and you're very passionate about, and you want to leverage that knowledge and passion to become someone that people to turn to if they want to know more about that particular subject. In other words, you want to become a thought leader. How would you do that? Why would you do that? That's what we're going to talk about today with my guest, Elinor Moshe. Elinor is author of Constructing Your Career: 12 Foundational Stages on the Greatest Project You'll Ever Work On. She's the host of the Constructing You Podcast, and she's the construction coach, where she focuses on helping people in their careers in the construction industry. Elinor, welcome to the show.

Elinor Moshe 1:24
Thank you very much for having me. It's great to be on the other side of the microphone.

Jeremy Cline 1:28
So, can you start by telling us who is Elinor Moshe, what are you about?

Elinor Moshe 1:32
I am all about ambition and achievement. And in my world, I want to see people win, because there is absolutely so much more than what we are conventionally told when it comes to our own world of and our realm of possibility. And it was actually when I stepped into my passion, my own purpose, and started operating out of alignment with who I'm meant to be, did I get to realise what it's like having this third pathway of a career, when I took agency over my own career, my own trajectory and stopped thinking that I have to, you know, do something because society says that needs to be the case, then the whole game changed for me. So, it was through the conception of a vision and taking immediate massive action in my own career, that allowed me to become the founder of Australia's first construction coach, and I get to work with industry professionals and future leaders, doing what I love doing the most, which is mentoring and speaking and, of course, so many other things that being a thought leader has really afforded me the opportunity. And there is no other type of career path that can afford you to do as much as thought leadership does.

Jeremy Cline 2:51
How did you get into construction in the first place? I mean, it is traditionally a very male dominated career.

Elinor Moshe 2:57
That it is. I did my undergraduate in architecture, and I am a creative, but I found out very quickly that I'm not a creative in that typical sense, and actually found a lot of frustration with the design process. And that was the one thing that you were meant to take joy in. But I slugged it out, and I stayed up, and I spent all my part-time hospitality money or retail money on architecture supplies, but I got to the end, and I thought this can't be, this isn't for me, I'm not as driven as the people around me when it comes to architecture. So, I looked back and based on my conventional knowledge, I thought, well, I have to continue my education if I want to do anything with my life, well, conventional education at that. So, I looked at the different master's options available. And construction was the one that stood out to me, because it was one that, for me, seemed to marry all the different worlds of the build environment, which is something that I am very passionate and genuinely interested in.

Jeremy Cline 4:04
When did you start to identify that there was a need for people to be coached in the construction area? How did that come about?

Elinor Moshe 4:12
When I identified that I needed one. It's not something that, you know, no one wakes up in the morning and says, 'You know what, I need a coach for my career.' People wake up in the morning and say, 'You know what, I need a fitness coach, I need, you know, a health coach.' You know, some people go that extra mile and they're like, 'Well, I need someone for my finances.' But to actually realise that they need one for their career, you know, that's a discourse within itself. But I got to a point in time in my career, when I knew that I don't have the time to figure out all the answers, nor will I, because you don't even know what you don't know, or where to even look sometimes. And I also knew that there had to be more that I'm missing something, you know, as ambitious and driven as even as I was back then, I knew that I was missing something. So, I started dabbling in some other coaches, you know, people had a short course here, a short course there, but nothing was really transformative. Nothing was actually, everything was quite tactical. And that wasn't working for me. But, you know, I kept on investing and kept on going. I'm like, you know, this is working for other people, it must work for me. But it wasn't. And it was through divine intervention that I met my mentor Ron Malhotra, and he transformed my life from the inside out. And because of what Ron was able to achieve with me, I knew that A, this is something that I love doing, and B, something that I became even more passionate about for the construction industry, because you know, my business, the construction coach, it is Australia's first construction coach, there's nothing like this available in the marketplace here, which focuses on the people. There is, you know, so much training and professional development that focuses on that technical skill set, or that, you know, quasi-professional skill set, but that's it, that's just the tactics, that doesn't actually transform. Because success happens from the inside out. So, when I realised the gaping hole in people's development at many different levels of their career, it just kept on unravelling into a world of opportunity. And I am, of course, very privileged and fortunate that I get to do what I do and bring the type of training either through my own programmes or collaborations to the construction industry, because it absolutely needs it the most.

Jeremy Cline 6:38
Were you surprised when having worked with Ron, that led you into more of the coaching path, rather than kind of in the industry itself as it were, if you see what I mean?

Elinor Moshe 6:51
Absolutely, that's a very good question. And convention will dictate that there is only one way to have a career path. And it was the start of my mentoring journey where these different paradigms start to break, and they start to shift, and people start to question what you're doing, and everyone wants to know your plan. So, it was absolutely different. But what I couldn't see, because I didn't have that level of consciousness or that thinking developed, was the pathway which allowed me to marry all the different worlds that I love. Because I remember writing my vision before I met Ron, and parts of my vision had to do with speaking, and I loved being on stages. And before I met Ron, I was tutoring as well on the weekends, and I love being around people and talking to them and mentoring them and getting them results. I was really interested in that as well. And I couldn't see what could actually bring all this together because I didn't want something to just be a side hustle or to do something when the opportunity avails, I couldn't see what it would look like. So, yes, at first, it was all quite confronting and I couldn't make sense of it. But now, well, not now, but as the journey progressed, it all became very clear, and it was very much the path that I needed to be on.

Jeremy Cline 8:11
You mentioned at the start the opportunities that thought leader had afforded to you. What is a thought leader? How do you define a thought leader?

Elinor Moshe 8:21
It's one of those terms which are very quickly becoming, you know, everyone thinks that they know what it is, and something that I can't stand is when people qualify themselves to be an expert on something that they haven't even spent five minutes delving into and haven't rolled the dice on it or have done more than scrolled a LinkedIn feed. But fundamentally, a thought leader is someone who is known for what they know, because what they know makes a difference. It's the opportunity to have a different model of entrepreneurship, which is centred around your passion, your purpose and your expertise. And what your business tasks are really focused on is relationship building, influence building, influencing, community building and creation. We're constantly in a creative state, because the lifeblood of our business and the viability of our authority is based on our thinking, and our thinking has to be distinctive. You don't become a thought leader if you just regurgitate what other people are saying or sing the same songs as other people. That's not what gets someone noticed or starts getting them, you know, out of being in that professional level when you're looking at the workplace. But that's what I love, that I can have an idea, and I can turn that idea into reality, whether that's a YouTube channel, whether that's a podcast, a book, a programme. But in order to do that, what we do in the first place, is really work on our message, our brand, and we have to understand all of who we are. Because that is really the essence of the thought leadership practice. Because we are the centre, we are the nucleus of our own practice. Not of the universe, it's not an egocentric business. But anything that we attach to our name, you know, that's what really affords us the world of opportunity. But in order to do that, we first have to establish our name. And in order to project that name and what we stand for, that comes in the form of a brand. And then, we can create, whether that's intellectual property, solutions, like I said, programmes, media, the list is endless, you know, content on a daily basis, blogs, I mean, there are no limits with an internet connection. And what we really get to do is we get to solve problems that we're passionate about, that we care about, our heart is very much involved in what we do.

Jeremy Cline 10:46
I think you've just touched on it, just there in that last bit, but why is this that someone, why would someone want to position themselves as a thought leader? What kind of makes them go 'Oh, okay, yeah, I listen to what Elinor said, it sounds more interesting', what's the thought process that kind of makes you go, 'Yes, I'd like to be a thought leader'?

Elinor Moshe 11:08
Many different drivers, there are some people who feel so passionate about a cause, and they need the right pathway, the right tools, the right principles in order to project that message. Because you have to look, you know, whatever industry you're in, whatever it is that you're doing, we live in a time of amplified competition, a very low differentiation. So, for example, if someone wants to be a coach, and you decide that you want to be a mindset coach. Fantastic. How many mindset coaches are there? As a consumer, you have an absolute plethora of choices. Okay, so what's really, when it comes down to it, what's going to be the differentiating factor between someone saying, you know, 'I want to go with Elinor', or not go with Elinor, but 'I'll at least will have a conversation with Elinor, or I'm going to go talk to Jeremy as a coach.' It's going to be our brand. It's going to be our authority. Because why would anyone go to a generalist. When your back hurts, you don't go to a general practitioner, you get back surgery, you go to the specialist. So, what authority positioning allows you to be is the only option. It allows you to be the go-to in your industry. It allows you to start building that authority a lot faster, because what you're doing is you're micro niching, you're not just being a mindset coach. What is that? That is extremely general. And when you are talking to consumers, or you know, people in your community who get flooded with content and decisions and you know, so many things per day, how are they meant to make a decision? Not to buy at first, because, you know, no one walks off the streets and just buys a non-commoditized solution, but at least has the conversation with you. And then, of course, a whole other skill set kicks in to convert that and to bring them into your world. But to stand out in a credible and notable fashion, you could either do that organically over time, if you are absolutely exceptional, and you have an idea to the marketplace that is absolutely revolutionary, or you can learn how to strategically build authority and get from the bottom, and I'm using my hands, but you can't see that, but you bypass all the process, and you get to the top. And what I have done, I can't even guarantee that it would have taken me 10 years, because I wouldn't even known what I didn't know, I've been able to achieve all that I have in just over one year.

Jeremy Cline 13:34
So, we're back to the person who's thinking it sounds like quite an interesting option. But it sounds to me from what you're saying that there are some very specific criteria that someone might need to fulfil or have available to them, if they are going to look at this as a career option, as a business option. So, I mean, it sounds to me like it's almost going to be a non-starter, unless you are very passionate about something in a very specific niche. I mean, is that right? Is this ruling off a lot of people out? Or is this something that almost anyone can find?

Elinor Moshe 14:14
The option is available to whoever wants it. You don't necessarily have to come with a readymade idea. Some people do. Other people just know that there is more to their career than where they are now. And this is applicable to anyone at any level. But just because it's available to everyone doesn't mean that it is suitable for everyone, because yes, there's a certain type of disposition and person who can really succeed. Number one, you have to be very ambitious, because it's a very different game and you're dealing all the time purely with people, and you have to really, not just have a great mindset, because the highs are really high, but the lows can be quite low, and going on this type of entrepreneurial journey, it can be lonely, and it can be to some extent isolating at time. So, having that persistence and resilience and believing first and foremost in your vision and your why and knowing why you're doing it is very, very important. You have to be someone that has the ability to defer gratification. What we do does not have immediate results. I know that everything that I do, even this podcast, there is not going to be an immediate result for me tomorrow. But this is building on something in 12 months, and maybe it won't, but we do it. So, it's not for someone who wants quick fixes and quick wins. This is a type of option and pathway that's a very slow burn. But this very slow burn is actually the fastest way to get to the top of your industry. It is someone who has the capacity to have a valuable idea. It doesn't have to be, you don't have to come ready made. And you do have to, you don't have to be, but it is ideal if you are someone who is comfortable with standing out. We have to, you know, as thought leaders, we're front facing all the time. And you know, some people say, 'Yeah, of course, I want to stand out.' But the minute that they get a little bit of backlash, they just go backwards, they just close the curtains, shut up shop, and they're not interested in pursuing this any further. So, there is a very unique blend of a person who does really, really well in this industry. But you know, some of that is an art, some of it is a science. And if someone really wants something, and they want to see a change happen, and they can see a vision that no one else can see, then thought leadership is the pathway that will allow you to magnify that, and to construct a completely different type of business and community and the world for yourself that you ever thought possible.

Jeremy Cline 16:58
Do you have to be an extrovert to do this?

Elinor Moshe 17:00
Not at all. I, by nature, am an introvert.

Jeremy Cline 17:03
How do you know that people are going to listen to what you want to say? Or how do you know that people want to listen to what you've got to say? How do you know that you've got a message that is resonating?

Elinor Moshe 17:16
That's a great question. When you are in ideation mode, you do have to have some proof of concept. So, there's many ways in which you can test that. But what you also have to really think of is, 'Who am I speaking to?' What I have to say, there is a certain type of demographic and psychographic which they have no interest. I could be speaking, you know, I could be telling them that the grass is green, and that will not resonate with them. It just doesn't matter, because based on all of who I am, anything that I say, it's not going to resonate. So, they're not my people, and I'm not speaking to them. But I know because of my branding, because of who I am, because of what I stand for, it's meant to ostracise. But it brings those who believe in what I believe a lot closer. And when you see people start to take a different course of action, to start thinking differently because of what you're doing, then that's when you start realising, 'Hey, there's something there.' But when it comes to messaging and branding and positioning, again, there are lots of elements which tie all of this together to make it very congruent and very magnetic, we certainly don't go out there and throw something against the wall and hope that it sticks.

Jeremy Cline 18:29
You mentioned seeing people changing what they're doing and changing their approach. What's the evidence of that? What does that actually look like? Particularly, when you're just starting out and you're looking for these kind of crumbs of comfort that, what you were saying, is resonating and people are taking action.

Elinor Moshe 18:46
Crumbs of comfort, it's a very good term. I haven't heard that one before in all the media and PR engagements that I have, it's fantastic. On the micro, it starts with someone sending you a message after you posted something saying, 'This is exactly how I feel, this is what I've been thinking. Thank you, you get me.' Slowly but surely, those messages of, 'Now, I've been following you for a long time and I love what you're doing, I love what you're saying, and, you know, this post just spoke to me', that's when you start to realise that, hey, there's something there. And it does come quickly, to some extent, because when you are speaking to a certain type of person, and it's as if you're sitting there in front of them, it cuts through that noise, it cuts through the endless amounts of posts that come up on our feed. So, that's what starts to prove that there is something there. But then, of course, as I said before, there's different ways of trialling. So, this might be a launch, it might be, you know, putting out a different type of product to market a book and seeing numbers, it's something that you constantly have to assess as well and monitor and see what's working and what's not. But when it comes to thought leadership, the beauty is that you can create and produce things that are in alignment with your person and your power. So, for me, it's speaking. So, that's why for me videos and podcasts and all the things that have to do with voice works well for me. Same as writing. You get me to do something, maybe you know ultra technical or you know, handbook type of thing, not something that's in alignment with me. So, you can really maximise your strengths in order to get the most powerful, you know, whether that be a tool or a programme out there, that works for you, and then, of course, works for the people that you're looking to serve.

Jeremy Cline 20:39
When you're starting out, and you're putting out the content, and you might have some ideas as to what's going to resonate and what isn't, and what people are going to find useful, but you're not really going to know that until you start getting this sort of feedback. And when you're first beginning, that's going to be pretty few and far between and quite rare. The analogy I heard recently, it was kind of like a gold miner. So, kind of, you're digging and you're digging and you're digging and you're digging, and you don't seem to be getting anywhere, and you decide to stop. And what you don't know is that if you just dig for a little bit longer, you will suddenly hit a massive stream of gold, or you might not. Or you might just be digging and digging and digging, never going to hit anything at all. How do you know that it's worth keeping digging versus thinking, 'Okay, this isn't working, let's try a different approach'?

Elinor Moshe 21:36
That's a fantastic question. And it is very much because people do not see immediate results. By immediate, you know, some people think immediate is six months, some people six weeks, some six days, some six years. It is subjective, but content is, whatever format that comes in, content is the lifeblood of a thought leadership venture. If I don't produce any type of content, what do I expect for somebody to just come and show up at my door, and I've delivered them no value, and all of a sudden, they want to work with me. I mean, that's delusion. And that doesn't actually come out of a place of servitude and leadership. Content, no one pays us to do it, but it's adding value. It is free value that can alone transform people's paradigms and thinking. So, they're constantly benefiting, and we are constantly, you know, you want to position yourself as an authority figure, it does come with constantly adding value, constantly showing up to your community, to the people that you said you would serve and that you would solve their problem for. When it comes to content, it's also something that takes time to refine. I look at my content in my early days, I'm like, 'That was the best that I had?' But it was at the time. But I didn't start off with brilliant content that captivates. I started off with quiet, you know, surface level, high level type of content. But because I kept on going and refining and listening and being attentive and staying with my own thoughts, and actually, thinking about what it is that I'm saying, does the content actually get better, it gets better over time. And I'm constantly monitoring it as well. You know, like I said before, if I post a video at a certain point in time, and it's not working well, I need to think, was that the time or was that the video. I change one of the factors, I go again. It is constantly something that needs to be monitored. And you know, there's a photo that I might post, and I look like that and I have that expression, and that really resonates with people, but I post something else, and it's not working. So, it's constantly thinking about, you know, what message it is, how this content piece as a whole, what is it trying to say? What is the value that, when someone interacts with this content, I want them to get out? And you know that it's working via, you know, there's different types of metrics, whether that's marketing metrics, sales metrics, revenue metrics, profit metrics, book sales, podcast downloads, there's always something in a business which you can measure to say, 'Okay, my organic marketing is actually working.'

Jeremy Cline 24:12
Let's turn to the business model. So, what is the business model of becoming a thought leader? I mean, when you're giving out all this free content and everything, how is it a career? How is it a business? How does it become something which you can use to pay the bills?

Elinor Moshe 24:29
Because what you are doing is establishing yourself at the centre, and you know that this is what I'm really passionate about, you can run workshops, you can run programmes, you can run masterminds, you can become a consultant back into your industry. You can use thought leadership to really magnify and get your brand out there for the work that you already do. So, even if you're in finance, even if you're an accountant or a mechanic I mean, you can really use that authority positioning to make yourself the go-to, even if you're a swimming pool installer, you can be that go-to person for that need, because someone needs their car fixed, someone needs a swimming pool installed. You want them to come to you. But when you're thinking about thought leadership, in its core model, it's about a training advisory, consultancy, coaching, speaking, you can write books, you can create, you know, different kinds of media content. And of course, we know that in the social age, that can be monetized. So, what you are doing in the thought leadership model is you are building different levers in your career, and in your business in which you can influence your income. When you work simply as a professional, you may think that you are in control of your income, but you're employed, and if tomorrow they decide to cut it off, that's it. What can people then do to influence their income? So, when you're a thought leader, you might want to write another book, there's income. You can create a podcast, which is a lead generator for a new programme. You want to launch a webinar series, you want to launch a masterclass, you want to do trainings, you want to consult back into your industry, the options are actually quite endless.

Jeremy Cline 26:20
So, with this huge choice of what you can do, say you're starting out, you started putting out content, it's starting to resonate, people are clearly interested, how do you figure out which option to pursue first? Because I'm guessing that you should really just start with one, otherwise, you just get overwhelmed.

Elinor Moshe 26:40
That's right, you do have to, you can certainly not start with all of them, it takes a lot of, you know, it takes time to get one thing right as well. And you don't want to be average at five things, you want to become really, really good at one, because that's a value, that's what people start paying you for. That's a two-fold path. First, you have to look at what are your strengths. You know, for me, it's podcasting. There are other people who are doing thought leadership and their strengths is webinars, and maybe Instagram Lives, and they get people into communities, and they do that. For other people, they don't want to do any of that, and they want to go down the traditional speaking route. So, on stage, paid type of opportunities. Other people, simply mentoring. I just want to get people for one-on-one, high-level type coaching. So, it's about knowing your person, and also what you love and enjoy. I mean, that's why we go into the thought leadership type of business, because we have the flexibility to work with anyone anywhere, in what we actually love doing. So, that's a two-fold pilot. And it's also about thinking, okay, how can I actually deliver, you know, I've solved a problem for the industry, how do I actually now deliver on that? What's the format? Do I go into a business and consult? Am I running, you know, six-months to 12-months programmes? What is now the vehicle in which I can deliver the solution?

Jeremy Cline 28:04
So, one part of it, as you said, is identifying your own strengths. So, it might be, I'm really good at speaking on stage, I'm really good at doing podcasts, I'm really good at writing, and so, I'm going to write a book. How do you then delve into making sure that what you're offering is going to hit home? Because you hear stories of people spending months and months and months writing a book, and then they realise they've written the wrong book, and it's not the one that people need. So, how do you get out of that trap?

Elinor Moshe 28:35
That comes from doing the most difficult work first. Before I launched anything, any programme, went into any collaboration, anything, other than putting out content to build my community, I spent months, at least eight months, figuring out my message, my brand, what I'm saying, what I'm here to do, who am I solving it for. I got very clear on that. And then I slowly tested that. So, I did different types of events and workshops. And I could see what was resonating, what wasn't. Where people falter, when they launch a book and no one buys it, well, you haven't actually positioned yourself, there's no brand, there's no alignment, you don't know who you're serving it for, you haven't actually demonstrated proof of concept and have evidence around it. So, you want to see that success, whether you launch a programme, a podcast, a book, you want to see that success, that comes with doing the foundational work for months and months, for as long as it takes, before you go out to market. And people don't want to do that, because they think, 'I have a book, I want to write a book, I want all the glitz and glamour that comes with the book.' Fantastic. Is that book in alignment? Is that book, as you said, actually solving the problem that it needs to? And when you're trying to build something as complex as authority positioning, the same thinking that got you to where you are, isn't the same thinking that will get you to the next level. And that's why having a mentor, having someone who knows what it takes and can really guide you through that pathway, so you can avoid those pitfalls and not get to the end of a book and go, as you just said, 'That's the wrong book', that's invaluable.

Jeremy Cline 30:17
What does testing actually look like? This is possibly a rather geeky question, but you know, what does that sort of eight-month period look like? Is it sort of putting out things, and then do you have lots of spreadsheets that you record certain metrics on?

Elinor Moshe 30:32
We definitely have to do a lot of recording. But it's not a geeky question at all. That eight months, first and foremost, comes with working on yourself. So, doing the inner work, really shifting your own paradigms, thinking what we see as possible. Because you can't lead people from the same consciousness that they're on. We have to actually raise our own consciousness in the first place. Then, we go into the ideation, then we go into branding and conceptualising, and characterising. Then, we go into communicating that. And the last part is commercialising that. So, once we have, you know, some of what we think our business could look like, well, a content, content is a great testing grounds because it's free, and if a post really doesn't work, then after 24 hours, it gets lost into the ether. But when you are sitting out on this path, at some point in time, you have to take a risk. We aren't promised anything. I wrote a book, I thought it was going to be great, and I thought I wanted, but I wasn't promised anything. Same as my podcast, I was hoping for 1000 downloads in a month, I ended up with over 50,000 in a year. When I put out my first event, and this was me, with my own, you know, my own backing, my own concept, I'm going to do an event, not as an association, single-handedly, I wanted to do this. And I filled a room, but I wasn't guaranteed anything. So, you have to take a risk, you want to get the reward of, you know, having that bestselling book or that popular podcast, having that brand and you know, that projection of yourself, that's great, you deserve all that. But it does come with actually rolling the dice at some point in time and taking the risk. It means putting out a webinar and showing up, even if 10 people, 30 people show up, and you thought there would be 100. It is inherently, you have to take a risk. There's no getting around that. If everything had a safe option, and you had a guaranteed outcome, well, that's being on a merry go round, not the roller coaster ride, which we are on, but it's what actually earns you the right to have an authority positioning.

Jeremy Cline 32:44
So, let's talk to someone who is listening to this, they haven't even started yet, but this does sound quite interesting. So, let's say you've got Jeremy, he's a lawyer, he works in a specific niche, a specific area of practice. And in that, he has identified a particular problem, which does tend to affect practitioners in that particular niche. And he thinks he's got some solutions to it, and he wants to start exploring it, and he wants to start telling the world about how he may have some solutions to that. But he doesn't have a clue. I mean, you know, he's working 9:00 to 5:30 in the office, five days a week, never thought about writing a blog or putting out a podcast or doing anything like that. What are some of the first steps that Jeremy can take to explore whether this is something he could actually do?

Elinor Moshe 33:40
That's a fantastic question. And if, you know, I think Jeremy is onto a winner if he's identified that there's a problem in the marketplace. But you can look out to people in the marketplace and see the results that they have. If someone has the results that you have, then look at what they've done and can you actually align yourself with them to get the result that you want. So, yes, of course, there are some people who, you know, are in executive positions, that have been able to achieve just that, but that may have taken them 20 years. But then, you may look at people who, you know, they've got a business based around their vision and you're seeing something different, you know, it's in that coaching-advisory space. So, Jeremy needs to think, 'Well, what game do I want to play? Do I want to be a traditional entrepreneur? Do I want to become a traditional employee? Or do I want to become a thought leader?' So, Jeremy in that situation really needs to start first and foremost asking himself questions. What is it that I'm driven by? What is my passion? What is my purpose? What are my values? Am I currently, where I am right now, am I currently living in total alignment with all of these four things? Or is something out of place here? Because if it is, then I need to look at where I am, find out where I want to go, see who can actually get me there, and then take massive and immediate action to change my pathway, change my route.

Jeremy Cline 35:07
That all sounds very big. That all sounds very scary. Is there anything Jeremy can do just to test the water or sort of, you know, easy win, just before we kind of start going, 'All right, okay, now I need to go and hire a life coach or whatever to help me identify all this sort of stuff'?

Elinor Moshe 35:25
You can ask these, you know, just because these questions sound simple, they're also just as not simple to answer. And that's why most people don't. If you ask, you know, most people, if you just walked up to them on the street and asked them, 'What's your life mission statement?', they would look at you like you're from another planet. So, Jeremy can right now start by having a bit of an introspection on his own accord, and thinking, 'What is it that I'm really driven by?' Answer those questions for himself, whether that's through journaling, whether that's through writing out a one-page life mission statement, actually get clarity on that destination. Because if you don't have clarity on the destination, you're not able to assess where you are now.

Jeremy Cline 36:09
Brilliant. If people want to find out more in this particular area, are there any resources which you've found have particularly helped you or which you routinely recommend to other people? Any books or quotes or just anything that you can suggest people look into?

Elinor Moshe 36:26
Can it be a person?

Jeremy Cline 36:28
Absolutely, yeah.

Elinor Moshe 36:29
I wouldn't be here having this conversation with you about thought leadership if it wasn't for my mentor Ron Malhotra. So, if people are curious as to what thought leadership in, you know, a five-year, Ron's been, you know, doing what he does for, I think, over five years, then definitely connect with Ron. He changed my life, he could just about change yours.

Jeremy Cline 36:55
And if people want to get in touch with you, how can they find you?

Elinor Moshe 36:59
Your community is more than welcome to get in touch with me on Instagram. I'm @elinormoshe_. Of course, on LinkedIn, Elinor Moshe, and for all mentoring opportunities and conversations to explore what thought leadership could look like for you, elinormoshe.com.

Jeremy Cline 37:16
Brilliant. I'll link to all of those in the show notes. Elinor, you've certainly opened my eyes to a different way of doing business. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Elinor Moshe 37:25
I've done my job in the last half an hour, 45 minutes that we've been talking. So, thank you very much for the conversation.

Jeremy Cline 37:32
Okay, hope you enjoyed that interview with Elinor Moshe. Clearly having a business or career as a thought leader isn't for everyone. But one of the things I took away from my conversation with Elinor is just how diverse it can be and how you can really choose to develop it in a way that plays to your strengths. Elinor described how, if you're very good at writing, you could write books, write blog posts, if speaking is more your thing, then you can speak on stage, you can do podcast interviews. It's something where there are lots of opportunities available, and you can grow into it from your own niche, from whatever your specialism or wherever you work at the moment is. Yes, it sounds like there could be quite a lot of hard work in terms of building up your brand and getting your content out there. But if you are a subject expert on something that you feel really passionate about, then it clearly is an option for people. Show notes for this episode are at changeworklife.com/101. Yes, we are into the hundreds. This is Episode 101. And you'll find there the transcript of the interview and links to everything that Elinor mentioned. I'd also be really grateful if you take the time to leave a review, either on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from. As I said, we're now into the hundreds, and we've got some cracking interviews lined up. And if you leave a review, that's really going to help other people find the show. So, if you can spend just a couple of minutes, just leave a review, either on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from, I would be incredibly grateful. As I mentioned, there's another great interview coming your way next week. So, subscribe to the show, and I can't wait to see you then. Cheers. Bye.

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